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Artillary supportting fire

Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 8:25 am
by Forst
On page 39, point 10 says you can't fire in support of a charge if you have any other targets to your front in effective range. I can see this for rifle fire but query artillery fire?

Does this mean artillery will ignore a charging target at close range, and not provide adjacent units support fire, if another target at effective range s available? Seems an odd priority given the potential target is likely to be a long way away, and conflicts with normal fire priority to attack nearest unit?

I can go with targeting a non charging unit in front of the battery which is at close range being a priority, as this mirrors the rifle fire logic.

Should point 10 read, "close or effective range"?

Thoughts?

Re: Artillary supportting fire

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 12:43 pm
by Tony TRT
Hi Forst,

This is from Too Fat Lardies & General de Brigade Forum Answers;

Artillery Supporting Fire
“Any unit may provide support fire, provided they are within effective range of the charging enemy or supports and provided they have no other targets whatsoever within effective range to their front”.

The rule is intended to prevent a player from being able to coordinate the fire of numerous supporting units upon a charging enemy. I think we've probably all seen it done, with players attempting to squeeze in fire from every possible unit in an attempt to stop a charge going in.

The thinking is that it's not easy to coordinate such fire at all, especially given the confusion of battle, smoke, the speed of charging units, etc, etc.

Therefore, the rule applies to any unit within a battery's 45º front arc up to effective range and of course, to any unit directly ahead of a hesitant battery.

This rule does supersede the Priority target rule. I know some players may claim that the chargers are nearer and should be hit prior to other targets that are further away, but the idea is to take the control of the battery out of the players hands, and although you the player can see the charge threat - your battery commander has other ideas or simply didn't realise what was going on!

Note: The rule for General d’Armee is slightly different.
“Any unit may provide support fire, provided it is within effective or volley range of the charging enemy or supports when the chargers are at the 5cm [3"] position and they have no nearer targets whatsoever within effective or volley range to their front”.

The General d’Armee rule is a follow-on version to overcome the situation of having the charging unit close to the battery but another unit, especially skirmishers, would also be within the battery's arc but just a little bit nearer.

The presence of another unit, especially skirmishers, lead to players claiming that they "surely" would target the chargers, esp. if it was a large cavalry unit, etc, rather than another "lesser" target that was only slightly in their arc.

The ruling has moved on with General d’Armee, mainly due to the presence of skirmish screens and that I caved in!

But of course, there is nothing to stop players adopting the General d’Armee version if they prefer for Picketts Charge, although there tends to be far less skirmish screens to get in the way with Picketts Charge!

Regards
Tony

Re: Artillary supportting fire

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 2:21 pm
by Forst
Hello, we may be talking at cross purposes?

My query is with" 'effective range".For Infantry this is 15 to 30cm, for artillery it is the range band after canister range normally 25cm to 80 ish.

The rules as written say any unit up to 15 cm away, in front of a supporting battery/unit take priority. So their is an element of confusion between effective range and 15cm between the various rules.

What happens in the 15 to 25 cm gap? Ie a unit 20cm away in front of a supporting battery is still at close canister range, but more than 15cm, so does it distract from the battery firing at adjacent chargers?

I am torn between ruling that a battery will prioritise a unit in front of the battery in close canister range, ie up to 25cm over supporting an adjacent unit being charged, or applying the 15cm limit to both infantry and artillary. The latter allowing the battery to ignore a target at say 20cm which is in canister range to enable it to supporters charged neighbour.

My leaning is toward the former, ie the battery will prioritise things directly infront, at canister range over supporting friends, self serving as it is, and against concentrating fire!

I don't do Napoleonic s so the other rules are not in my library.

Re: Artillary supportting fire

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2023 5:38 pm
by Tony TRT
Hi Forst,

Happy New Year.

Ok,

“Any unit may provide support fire, provided they are within effective range of the charging enemy or supports and provided they have no other targets whatsoever within effective range to their front”.
Does this mean artillery will ignore a charging target at close range, and not provide adjacent units support fire, if another target at effective range is available?

Yes, it does, this is the whole point of the supporting fire rule and this rule supersedes the priority targets rule.

Now, if a unit is 20cm away in front of a supporting battery then I use the priority targets rule. The charging unit(s) would have moved to 5cm point. The lead defending unit and all supports may now fire at the charging unit(s). The charging unit(s) will be closer than the unit 20cm away and therefore is the priority target. This assumes that the charging unit is within the firing arc of the artillery.

Also the artillery unit is a defensive support and therefore cannot move or fire for the rest of the turn in any case.

This is from Too Fat Lardies & General de Brigade Forum Answers;

Target Priorities in Fire Combat
A firing unit has a target directly to its front at a range of 20cm (8”) and a second target to its left with only 1 of its bases within the shooting unit's 45-degree arc but at 15cm (6”) distance. The priority target is clearly the second unit even though it's less central simply because it is the nearest target. However, if the second target unit was skirmishing then it could be ignored and the first unit could be targeted.

Regards
Tony

Re: Artillary supportting fire

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2023 8:51 am
by Forst
Thanks for clarity then

The rules intention therefore is to go with a critical range of 15cm as per p38, and apply that 15cm range to the clause on p39 regardless of weapon type. Ie the capabilities of the weapon is subordinate to the threat range.

Then Smoothbore musket armed troops will engage threats to their front at 15cm even though it's long range for them, but could still support fire at effective range (10cm) at units charging adjacent unit, if any threat infront is beyond 15cm.

Artillery will ignore targets at greater than 15cm in front, in preference to providing support fire!

The closer target takes priority unless enemy in front at 15cm or less for all weapons types!

Think I get it now, even if the rules don't actually say it that way!