Infamy, Infamy! Force Sizes?

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Tcpt1989
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Re: Infamy, Infamy! Force Sizes?

Post by Tcpt1989 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:42 pm

Captain Reid wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:33 pm
There was no apparent system for legionaries to be recruited into the guard, who seem to have mainly been recruited from Italy (in the Roman sense, excluding Cisalpine Gaul), at least during the II period (later it changed). It seems largely a matter of opinion as to whether they were recruited from better-off families (not 'upper class' for the rank and file but perhaps from moderately well off families). Certainly, given the amount of graft there seems to have been in the Roman system in general, and definitely including the army, a nice lucrative Praetorian posting would be a solid career for the son of an aspiring 'middle class' Italian family, without the labour and (usually) the hazards associated with the legions.
Absolutely - their pay was significantly better than the legions (before you even count donativum) plus as you say a fairly cushty posting in Rome or Roman Italy.

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Captain Reid
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Re: Infamy, Infamy! Force Sizes?

Post by Captain Reid » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:45 pm

Here's one notably successful Praetorian's career:

Soldier of the VIII Praetorian Cohort.
Beneficiarius of the Praetorian Prefect, decorated in Britain with torques, arm-rings and phalerae
Evocatus of the emperor, decorated with a golden crown
Centurion of the VI Cohort of Vigiles
Centurion of the Statores
Centurion of the XVI Urban Cohort
Centurion of the II Praetorian Cohort
Trainer of the cavalry of the Speculatores
Princeps Praetori of the XIII Gemina Legion
Primus Pilus of the VI Victrix Legion, decorated against the Astures with torques, phalerae and arm-rings
Tribune of the V Cohort of Vigiles
Tribune of the XII Urban Cohort
Tribune of the III Praetorian Cohort
Tribune of the XIV Gemina Martia Victrix Legion
Procurator of the province of Lusitania

Beginning under Claudius, ending under Nero.

Although he almost certainly benefited from nepotism under Claudius, and his decorations in Britain may have 'come up with the rations', his career is very much one of movement between very different units, in a way a bit like a Napoleonic officer might exchange from regiment to regiment, infantry to cavalry, to gain 'steps'.

But the key thing is that he moved from units with high prestige, gaining rank from miles to Centurion, but improving the status (in terms of prestige, that is) of the units he commanded with each 'step' until he finally goes into the legions as a senior centurion before quickly progressing to the highest rank in the centurionate. He then begins again as tribune outside the legions and moves up in status from Vigiles to Praetorians. And then to a legion.

If you were to look at that tree without any prior knowledge, you'd assume the highest prestige units were the legions rather than the Praetorians. But his legionary commands were of greater responsibility than commanding a 'mere' cohort.
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DougM
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Re: Infamy, Infamy! Force Sizes?

Post by DougM » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:47 pm

Tcpt1989 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:28 pm
Tomm wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:39 pm
Presumably praetorians were over for Clavdivs' campaigns in Britannia. With ELEPHANTS!
:shock: At first I thought you were taking the mick here, but then I googled it and bloody hell. ELEPHANTS!
Well, one elderly elephant at least, and a camel.
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DougM
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Re: Infamy, Infamy! Force Sizes?

Post by DougM » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:52 pm

Captain Reid wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:45 pm
Here's one notably successful Praetorian's career:

Soldier of the VIII Praetorian Cohort.
Beneficiarius of the Praetorian Prefect, decorated in Britain with torques, arm-rings and phalerae
Evocatus of the emperor, decorated with a golden crown
Centurion of the VI Cohort of Vigiles
Centurion of the Statores
Centurion of the XVI Urban Cohort
Centurion of the II Praetorian Cohort
Trainer of the cavalry of the Speculatores
Princeps Praetori of the XIII Gemina Legion
Primus Pilus of the VI Victrix Legion, decorated against the Astures with torques, phalerae and arm-rings
Tribune of the V Cohort of Vigiles
Tribune of the XII Urban Cohort
Tribune of the III Praetorian Cohort
Tribune of the XIV Gemina Martia Victrix Legion
Procurator of the province of Lusitania

Beginning under Claudius, ending under Nero.

Although he almost certainly benefited from nepotism under Claudius, and his decorations in Britain may have 'come up with the rations', his career is very much one of movement between very different units, in a way a bit like a Napoleonic officer might exchange from regiment to regiment, infantry to cavalry, to gain 'steps'.

But the key thing is that he moved from units with high prestige, gaining rank from miles to Centurion, but improving the status (in terms of prestige, that is) of the units he commanded with each 'step' until he finally goes into the legions as a senior centurion before quickly progressing to the highest rank in the centurionate. He then begins again as tribune outside the legions and moves up in status from Vigiles to Praetorians. And then to a legion.

If you were to look at that tree without any prior knowledge, you'd assume the highest prestige units were the legions rather than the Praetorians. But his legionary commands were of greater responsibility than commanding a 'mere' cohort.
It's the same process as every civil service anywhere. You win your spurs as a relative junior in a large organisation, then you take a promotion in a smaller one, then when you demonstrate your competency back into the larger organisation at level, to demonstrate greater responsibilities, then promotion into a smaller one.. etc..
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BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: Infamy, Infamy! Force Sizes?

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:16 am

Captain Reid wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:45 pm
Here's one notably successful Praetorian's career:

Soldier of the VIII Praetorian Cohort.
Beneficiarius of the Praetorian Prefect, decorated in Britain with torques, arm-rings and phalerae
Evocatus of the emperor, decorated with a golden crown
Centurion of the VI Cohort of Vigiles
Centurion of the Statores
Centurion of the XVI Urban Cohort
Centurion of the II Praetorian Cohort
Trainer of the cavalry of the Speculatores
Princeps Praetori of the XIII Gemina Legion
Primus Pilus of the VI Victrix Legion, decorated against the Astures with torques, phalerae and arm-rings
Tribune of the V Cohort of Vigiles
Tribune of the XII Urban Cohort
Tribune of the III Praetorian Cohort
Tribune of the XIV Gemina Martia Victrix Legion
Procurator of the province of Lusitania
That's one hell of a week, isn't it.
No plan survives first contact with the dice.

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