French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

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Marshal Rob
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:16 am

French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

Post by Marshal Rob »

Hi All,
For those of you who play 1812 Russian campaign. How do you deal with the 1 regiment to a brigade for the French Cuirassier organisation?
Also, there was 1 squadron of lancers attached to (?) one of the Regiments/Brigades in each Heavy Cav. division. According to Nafziger this was standard throughout the Summer and Autumn parts of the Campaign.
I am asking because I am currently painting and basing the 3 regiments and 1 squadron for 1 Division (hopefully more) in 6mm. I was getting ready to make 2 brigade command stands then on closer examination discovered each regiment is a brigade and commanded by a Brigade level commander.

Cheers
Rob
Valmy92
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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:32 pm

Re: French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

Post by Valmy92 »

Without practical game experience on this, the regiments are initially large enough that they could be represented by two small (maybe even standard) units under the brigadier. The lancer sizes varied wildly across the divisions, I would think a single small unit or omit them entirely.
Marshal Rob
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:16 am

Re: French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

Post by Marshal Rob »

Hi Valmy92,
Yes I thought so too at first but at Borodino the organisation was maintained, but with very weak 4 squadron regiments - something like 300 to 350 per regiment - but still a brigade. The lancer squadron was there too - but also very reduced strength. AFAICR no squadron has more than 90 riders.
Cheers
Rob
Valmy92
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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:32 pm

Re: French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

Post by Valmy92 »

One of the things I think about when everything is shrunken (the Russians were too) is to define down small, medium, and large instead of everything being small, you keep proportionality.
Marshal Rob
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:16 am

Re: French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

Post by Marshal Rob »

In terms of V1 rules, A French Cuirassier division of 3 regiments generates 3 ADCs, so it is "powerful" However, the V1says a brigade is at least 2 units.
I just wondered how others deal with this in games, if it has come up as an issue.

Redefining the standard size definitions according to scenario is an interesting idea I will explore. You could also reduce the number of hits after the -2 level to speed up dispersal.

Cheers,
Marshal Rob
PedroBlazer
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2022 5:44 pm

Re: French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

Post by PedroBlazer »

I would stick to the rule that brigades must consist of at least 2 units. So treat the division of 3 cuirassier regiments as a single brigade in GdA.
DaveC
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:39 pm

Re: French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

Post by DaveC »

PedroBlazer wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 6:05 pm I would stick to the rule that brigades must consist of at least 2 units. So treat the division of 3 cuirassier regiments as a single brigade in GdA.
Depending on numbers that might even get a small unit of Lancers as well.
Marshal Rob
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:16 am

Re: French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

Post by Marshal Rob »

Hi All,
All regiments and the squadron as 1 brigade - That's a solution I will probably go with and was the first I considered. I was curious if anyone had faced this issue in their games and how they dealt with it. This interpretation also enables supported charges. 1 regiment brigades have no support (V1 rules). Because of the command investment in these divisions, I will probably assign a fixed (don't throw for) ADC to the "brigade/division" plus 1 ADC that is in the larger pot in the game turn sequence.
Like all game rules, historical reality pitches up the googly very often (curve ball for you of the other bat and ball persuasion). In this case it is a pretty significant issue for history based gamers.
Treating the Lancer squadron as a unit is not part of V1. By Borodino they had also suffered attrion, so I will model them. Although, historically, the squadron was in practice the tactical unit for mounted - but that is another issue. At Auerstadt, a single dragoon squadron cleared a Prussian brigade front of the French skirmisher lines, but lacked the extra strength to continue and attack the main French positions to the North of Hassenhausen.
Cheers
M.Rob
Contrarius
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:35 pm

Re: French Cuirassier brigades in 1812 - Russia.

Post by Contrarius »

In the Hundred Days campaign you have a similar problem with the Brunswick cavalry, which consisted of a single large hussar regiment (730 men in 4 squadrons) and a single squadron of uhlans (250 strong). One solution is to field this as two separate “Standard” units of hussars (each of 2 squadrons) and one Small unit of lancers. My impression from the sources is that brigade commanders would in any case tend to think of their command in terms of numbers of squadrons, i.e. nominally independent battlefield units, and would try to keep at least one squadron in reserve even if that meant breaking up regiments to do so.
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