Who can leaders give activations to?

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Scotbot
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Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Scotbot »

The rules state that leaders can "activate any group, formation or mob under their command and within their command range". But nowhere can I find what 'under their command" means.

Does this mean only the group(s) they are assigned to during army building? Or does a leader 'command' any group on the table? Or command any group on the table as long as he outranks any leader attached to that group?

If I have 3 formations on the table all led by Status 2 leaders and I also have a Status 3 leader attached to one of those groups, can that status 3 leader also give commands to the other 2 formations if they are within range?

This came up in a game because of allied gauls in a late republican roman force. A status 2 gallic leader was assigned to 2 groups of gallic warriors. That group failed their roll for surly, which means (with clarifications from the FAQ) they can no longer mob up with any other gauls in the force, but they can still mob together and are still led by their status 2 leader. But, the surly rules says "Surly Groups will only activate on their own leader's commands". This seems to imply that if they were NOT surly that they COULD activate on the commands of a leader not their own?

Which brought up the question, can groups be commanded by leaders not attached to them, and not assigned to them during army creation?

*edited topic title to say 'activations' instead of 'orders' to make it more clear
Munin
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Re: Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Munin »

In general, a unit with an attached Leader can only be "remotely activated" by a Leader of higher status.

As an example, if your entire force were led by a Status 3 leader, under ordinary circumstances he could use one of his Command Initiatives to activate your Gauls (provided they were mobbed up together and still constituted a single unit AND were within his command range). Their own (attached) Status 2 leader would be "along for the ride" in that case, as only the unit is activated. However, if those Gauls are Surly, then that Status 3 leader cannot activate them, only their own Status 2 leader can do so.

So when Giaus Quintus Pretentius says, "Gauls, advance!" they make lewd gestures and tell him to "piss off, fancy man!" But if their chosen leader Ambiorix Frenetix says, "Let's go get 'em, boys!" they're all about it.
Scotbot
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Re: Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Scotbot »

I thought that might be the case, but could only find rules for this when it came to 2 leaders attached to the same unit. It does make sense that higher status leaders can also command other units with leaders to which they are not attached.

Thanks, Munin!
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Re: Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Paul H »

I have been playing that the C-in-C (status III leader) can activate all other leaders in the army. Are we also saying that a status II leader can activate status I's and supernumeraries?
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Captain Reid
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Re: Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Captain Reid »

No Leader may ever Activate another Leader.

What they may do is Activate a Unit that is under the command of a subordinate Leader.

It's an important distinction. The latter denies you use of the subordinate Leader's Command Initiatives. The former gives you use of them which is unintended and also very potent.
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Re: Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Paul H »

Thanks Captain. An important distinction indeed. I'm still not clear enough though about other aspects, I'm afraid. Concrete example for a battle next weekend: I have a status III leader commanding 3 legionary groups, plus 3 Numidian allied skirmish groups, 2 of them with supernumeraries and one with a status II leader. Can I make the two supernumeraries subordinate to the status II leader, so that he can activate their groups? And if so, would it remain the case that the status III leader, as warlord, could activate any of the 6 groups?
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Captain Reid
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Re: Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Captain Reid »

I'd say so. Presuming the Status II is a Numidian then he could command his own Group (from which he has displaced the SN who no longer exists) and the other two Numidian Groups. And the centurion get to command everyone.

However this does contradict what Don Avis has said elsewhere as clarification, which is that if the Status II Leader can command all the Skirmishing Cavalry, they all will lose their SNs. I'd regard that as a bit harsh myself (whist noting that three groups of Numidians could be thought of as pretty harsh in itself!)

A plausible middle ground would be to say that the Numidian Status II can command his own Group plus the two Skirmishing Cavalry Groups that have SNs, but that the centurion cannot as they're allied mercenaries and will look to their own leader rather than a Roman who's technically in command of them. I like this 'solution' best.

As an aside, I don't think it's intended that a Roman 'core force' should have more than one Group of non-Romans of any single type. Additional units should be added as Support points allow. Obviously, you can construct a force as you please, but it's noticeable that all the rulebook Republican lists only have a single unit of each type of non-Roman and I don't think that's accidental.
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Paul H
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Re: Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Paul H »

Thanks. I agree that that is the most satisfying answer. (I wasn't precise about the force composition - it is Numidian Cav + Numidian Skirmishers (core force) + another group of Cav (support points).)
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Re: Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Quackstheking »

Captain Reid wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:03 pm
However this does contradict what Don Avis has said elsewhere as clarification, which is that if the Status II Leader can command all the Skirmishing Cavalry, they all will lose their SNs. I'd regard that as a bit harsh myself (whist noting that three groups of Numidians could be thought of as pretty harsh in itself!)
If I said that then I must have been smoking something or under the influence of something alcoholic! :lol:

The Status II leader will displace the SN on the group he is attached to. The other group retains it's SN. Skirmishing cavalry (indeed any skirmishing troops) may never form mobs or formations. Effectively the Status II leader activates both cavalry groups with each of this available orders. He can't activate them together with just one order!

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Re: Who can leaders give activations to?

Post by Greuthungi »

Can a Status II or III leader then activate two units simultaneously? For example, can I make a combined attack with two formations at the same time?
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