Lets talk about Surly Troops

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redmist1122
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Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by redmist1122 »

In our game tonight, my son fielded a Late Republic force, "Caesar in Gaul or Britain", which has a Allied Gallic Leader and a Cavalry group assigned. My son opted buy another Allied Gallic Cavalry group to compliment the Gallic Leader Status II leader which comes with the force.

With both Allied Gallic Calvary sporting the "surly" characteristic, one came up short in the die role for being really surly, the other passed. So my question is; with one group labeled surly, can they form up with the other cavalry group to be a mob? Can they still take commands from the Gallic Leader? Or, do they just have to rely on a Supra Numerum leader to get them through the fight?

This was out second game with "surly" troops, and this sparked a number of questions.

Thank you.
Greg P.
Tucson, AZ, USA

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bandrsntch
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Re: Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by bandrsntch »

I would say it depends on which cavalry Group ended up being Surly. If it was the one that came with the Status II Leader then I would say they will take orders from him and could form up with the other Allied cavalry Group. If it was the one that he chose as a Support Option, then I would say no. They will only obey the Supra Numerum leader that came with them.

Hamilton
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Re: Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by Hamilton »

I am no authority but I think the later, "...they just have to rely on a Supra Numerum leader to get them through the fight?"

To include the Rule Reference:
Troop Characteristics P. 75
"Surly Groups will only activate on their own Leaders Commands. They may never form a Formation or Mob with other Allied Groups."
Troop Roster P. 79
"Characteristics: Surly, Impetuous, Supra Numerum"

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Quackstheking
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Re: Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by Quackstheking »

In this instance I might "Play the Period" and not the rules!

You allocate Groups to Leaders before the game begins so the narrative would be that both cavalry groups are from the same tribe being led by a Tribal leader. On this basis I would only roll once for their Surly characteristic and apply the outcome equally to both Groups. The reality is that you roll for "surlyness" when they deploy so both sides have a common understanding of their nature.

However if they deployed separately with one Group under the level 2 Leader and one under a supra numerum, then the narrative would be different tribes and each should be rolled for separately! If the one under a SN then rolled Surly, even though he is outranked by the L2, the boys would only listen to their SN

Whilst Groups may have a Supra Numerum, they can be replaced with a named leader if so allocated when they then won't have a Leader card for the SN in the deck.

It has already been clarified that two Groups of Mounted Warriors (not mounted skirmishers) can form (for the want of a better description) a "mounted formation" which can move together on one combined dice roll for one Leader Command Initiative.

Don

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Captain Reid
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Re: Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by Captain Reid »

Quackstheking wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:10 am


Whilst Groups may have a Supra Numerum, they can be replaced with a named leader if so allocated when they then won't have a Leader card for the SN in the deck.
When this happens Don, do all the Groups that will deploy with the leader lose their SNs or just one of the groups?
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Quackstheking
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Re: Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by Quackstheking »

Hi David,

Yes they've opted to deploy and fight under the Named Leaders command as per page 73 on Troop Characteristics.

The exception is Fanatics. They can keep their Supra Numerum Leader with a card in deck. This means they can ambush off of an Ambush point when the SN's card is dealt. However the presence of this card may give your opponent a clue that you have fanatics! They can also ambush from ANY Mob when the Leaders card from that mob is dealt. They can't ambush from a mob on their Supra Numerum's card as he is out ranked by the named Leader. It's a choice!

Don

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Captain Reid
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Re: Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by Captain Reid »

Thanks, Don, that's what I'd surmised but I wasn't absolutely certain that's how it worked.

Skirmishers and Skirmish Cavalry should presumably deploy in single groups (I know they've got to move separately anyway) so they retain one leader (be it SN or 'real') per group?
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Quackstheking
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Re: Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by Quackstheking »

Yes - of course if there was a Level 1 or Level 2 leader in command range, he could activate them as he outranks the SN.

Don

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Captain Reid
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Re: Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by Captain Reid »

Thanks Don, again I thought that would be the case but I'm very grateful for you taking the time to confirm that.
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redmist1122
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Re: Lets talk about Surly Troops

Post by redmist1122 »

Hello Don,
Great insights for the Surly troops. That makes good sense in deploying them and rolling dice and outcomes. It would have to be determined by the Barbarian leader, of in this case the Roman leader, if they will deploy together or separately for the SN to be established.


Thanks again!
Greg P.
Tucson, AZ, USA

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