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Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:50 pm
by bandrsntch
P62 it says "If a Leader contributes his dice to a combat, then there is a chance that he is wounded or killed if the Group he is attached to loses one or more figure. Roll a D6 for each Leader present in a combat. If the roll is under the number of figures killed in that round of combat, then the Leader is hit. "

As you can't roll under a one, I am wondering if this is a misprint. Shouldn't it be "equal to or under number of figures killed"? That would be consistent to the way fisticuffs is handled in Sharp Practice.

Re: Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:37 pm
by Archdukek
No, it’s definitely roll under the number of killed. Rich has mentioned it a couple of times in the Demo games. Keep in mind that if a Warlord chooses to add extra dice above his Status Level in the Close Combat then he subtracts 1 per extra dice from the dice roll. So in that case he can be hit even if there is only 1 kill on the Group he is with.

John

Re: Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:55 pm
by DougM
There's also the Assassin Infamy Card that can affect the numbers I believe.

Re: Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:56 am
by Richard
It is indeed under that number. As John and Doug have both rightly pointed out, there may be factors that reduce that roll and make the chance of a Leader casualty higher.

Rich

Re: Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:39 pm
by Hamilton
“Roll a D6 for each Leader present in a combat.” ...or that contributed dice?
I thought we only rolled for one leader but maybe that was Missile fire?

Thanks

Hamilton

Re: Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:49 pm
by Hamilton
Also the die roll outcomes for Leader casualties in close combat are reversed from missile combat Leader casualty results, with 1 being the worst close combat result, compared with missile combat having 6 as worst result. Its clear that this is the way it is... but just checking?

Thanks,

Hamilton

Re: Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:50 pm
by Archdukek
Hamilton wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:49 pm
Also the die roll outcomes for Leader casualties in close combat are reversed from missile combat Leader casualty results, with 1 being the worst close combat result, compared with missile combat having 6 as worst result. Its clear that this is the way it is... but just checking?

Thanks,

Hamilton
Yes they are different. In Close Combat if hit then a Leader will suffer a wound, for Ranged Fire the missile might hit someone else 50% of the time.

John

Re: Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:25 pm
by Hamilton
I'm also wondering if this is a difference in who is rolling on the leader casualty table.
For missiles:
If Leader(s) is attached to Group with kills, Defender Rolls 1D6: if less than #kills, Leader is hit.
If more than one Leader is attached, only one is hit, Roll with equal chances to see which one is affected.
Attacker then Rolls for Leader Missile Casualty Result with lowest result being some other guy than leader getting hit but if they get a 6 leader is hit hard.

For Close Combat:
Defender rolls both times:
If Leader(s?) attached, Defender rolls 1D6, if less than the number of kills Group took then leader was hit. Defender then Rolls for Casualty result with lowest result being worse outcome.

It looks like multiple leaders can both contribute dice to a close combat and then also each have to roll for getting hit. I think so:
7.6.7 Leader Casualties
If a Leader contributes his dice to a combat, then there is a chance that he is wounded or killed if the Group he is attached to loses one or more figure. Roll a D6 for each Leader present in a combat.

[or is it just each leader that contributed a die?]

Re: Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:24 pm
by Archdukek
The rules don’t explicitly say who makes the dice rolls for Leader Casualties from either fire or Close Combat. I would expect the Defender to roll, it then being more psychologically painful when their Leader takes a hit or is killed. :)

In Close Combat a Leader is only vulnerable if he has contributed dice to the combat. (First sentence of 7.6.7) Any and all such Leaders are vulnerable and will need to be diced for separately. Most of the time that will be all Leaders present because you will usually want them fighting, but in the case of a Roman Optio attached to a unit led by a Centurion he will not fight but is positioned to the rear to hold the unit together and take over if need be.

John

Re: Melee Leader Casualties

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 5:51 pm
by Hamilton
I agree that it is not specified who should roll but I think in this case the intent of who rolls is betrayed by the order of outcomes on the die results. Consistently throughout the game rolling high means better outcomes for the player rolling. So:

6.6.3 Leader [Missile Combat] Casualties [Opponent rolls and if they roll well (6) "What a shot! or if they roll poorly (1-3) leader avoids being hit.]
"If a Leader is attached to a Group which loses figures killed, roll a D6. If the number rolled is less than the number of figures killed in that Group that Turn, the Leader is hit. Roll for a hit on the Leader Missile Casualty table below.
1 to 3: The Leader positions himself carefully behind another man who is hit by the missile. Remove a figure as normal
4, 5: A missile catches the Leader, wounding them. Do not remove a figure. The Leader’s Status is reduced by one level
6: What a shot! The Leader is wounded and knocked down, unable to activate.
7.6.7 Leader [Close Combat] Casualties [Owner of Leader needs to roll anything but a one (leader is badly wounded) and anything else (2-6) leader is lightly wounded.]
"When a Leader is hit, roll a D6. On a roll of 1, the Leader is badly wounded and their Status Level is reduced by two for the current game. On a roll of 2 to 6, the Leader is lightly wounded and their Status Level is reduced by 1 for the current game."