Cold War Tanking

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Kj7574
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:14 pm

Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by Kj7574 »

I've calculated stats for modern tanks. Would anybody be interested in playtesting? I'm looking for feedback. I'm not sure my strike and armor numbers are right. It's really hard to find good data on gun penetration and armor thickness.

My thinking was that once composite armor was used, you can't make the armor/strike consistent with WWII WaT. The armor and strike get big very quickly. So I have a table for 1945 to 1975 that are consistent with original WaT, and tables for 1945 to 2019 that have their own scale for armor and strike. I didn't include ATGMs or helicopters because I didn't think it would make the game any more fun. It would be easy to do, though.

I added attributes of 2nd Generation (2Gen), 3rd Generation (3Gen), Composite Armor (Comp), ERA Armor (ERA), and Heavy ERA Armor (HERA).
2Gen gives +1 to hit, +1 ACQUIRE dice, AIM is not lost if moving or target moves, and change any die to AIM.
3Gen gives +1 to hit, +1 ACQUIRE dice, AIM is not lost if moving or target moves, change any to AIM, and change SHOOT to SHOOT THEN MOVE.
Comp gives +2 armor dice versus HEAT rounds.
ERA gives +1 armor dice versus HEAT
HERA: +2 armor dice versus HEAT, -25% to attacker’s strike dice (drop fractions, but not less than 1).

Does all that make sense?

reyndat
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:32 am

Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by reyndat »

Sounds good. I would be interested in playtesting something like this.

Herkybird
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:59 pm

Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by Herkybird »

I, too would be interested. I am happy enough with my AI tanker http://herkybird.tynesidewargames.co.uk/misc.html stats, but baulked at trying to go beyond the Yom Kippur war.

reyndat
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:32 am

Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by reyndat »

Keith, I tried to reply to your PM, but it wouldn't let me. It gave me a message that I was too new to the forum. My email is reyndat@yahoo.com

Mako
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:13 pm

Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by Mako »

Looks like some great ideas.

I'm interested in giving the Cold War a try too.

I'm most interested in Cold War Europe, from the 1950s - 1980s, but will also consider other theaters and periods too, including Arab-Israeli Wars (1973 preferred), Gulf War I and II, etc, etc.. Would love to see stats for early to mid-Cold War American and Soviet armor, as well as for the West Germans, British, Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Dutch, etc.. Need to get those M48s, Leopard 1s and IIs, Jagdpanzer Kanones, Marders, S-Tanks, T-72s, and BMPs into battle.

Would love to see thoughts on incorporating small units of troops into the games, both for WWII, but especially the Modern era, since they are such an integral part of modern, combined arms warfare.

I can be reached via e-mail at:

rkentjr AT hotmail (d0t) c o m

OldCavGuy
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by OldCavGuy »

Seret wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:50 am
One of the main innovations would be "hunter/killer mode" tanks. In WAT at the moment we separate out the functions of commander and gunner. The TC acquires the target, but then you need separate dice for him to get the gunner laid onto the target (aim dice). IN a WW2 tank that was done verbally, hence it's a point of friction in the rules.

In an H/K tank you'd probably just skip that; if the TC acquires a target you can automatically lay the gun onto it. So no need for an aim dice, but if you want to spend them to get those +1s to hit then you're good.

I wouldn't give them a +1 for having a TI during daytime. Smoke dischargers are a good idea though.
TI makes a HUGE difference in daytime. Unless you take preparations ahead of time your heat signature will still show up in daylight. Can't hide in brush at the edge of a woods for example unless stopped, the vehicle has cooled down (engine), engine is off, and you have thermal blanket or paint. Even then, you can't have crew out as their body heat is visible. +1 for TI during daytime. NO RANGE LIMIT.
IR gives you night vision as if you have a searchlight (searchlight white light rules?) not visible to naked eye but the light is visible to IR vision, Starlight scope, Low Light TV, and TI. Starlight and Low Light TV capability. Modern gets very complicated very quickly. :shock:

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Seret
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Location: Kent UK
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Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by Seret »

OldCavGuy wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:34 am
Can't hide in brush at the edge of a woods for example
Instead of a blanket +1 to acquisition you might want to reduce the effectiveness of cover then. So only require one extra acquire dice when in woods instead of two.

OldCavGuy
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:57 pm

Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by OldCavGuy »

Reading CoC. Looking for night fighting, and weather rules??

Let me see. My gunner sees the white against black or black against white outline of a tank and fires a 1000m/sec APDSDU-FS round at it at point blank range- a round fired at T72 tanks dug in to with the spell pushed in front at up to 2 km range, where the round never noticed the spell, and apply a +1 for the cover of a tree trunk or two?

I apologize for the sarcasm. Trees don't provide cover from tank guns, just concealment. TI removes the concealment. I had some US Army Captains surprised by that as TIS equipped M60A3 (TIS) blew their T72 in a wood line away. They replied with 120mm mortar flare mortar rounds with impact fuses. Now their T90 would sound an alarm if the M1A2 lased them and automatically fire anti-thermal smoke grenades in my direction, too late.

As I said, moderns gets very complicated. COC also appears to have a ground scale of 1" = 12 meters so a 6x5 foot or 96" x 60" table is 1150x750 meters. Point blank range for a MBT. Concealment is going to be important.

How does CoC treat concealment? If over 18" infantry in buildings are concealed. 18" and under infantry can tell the building appears occupied.

You have anything else?

Looks like I may need a house rule for COC.

alihashmtanker
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:44 pm

Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by alihashmtanker »

Has anybody done any work on ratings for Iran/Iraq war tanks? Given the AI tanker ratings, how would you rate the chieftain and the m60?

Kj7574
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:14 pm

Re: Cold War Tanking

Post by Kj7574 »

The ratings I use are:
Iran-
Chieftain, ARMOR=6, STRIKE=8, 2nd generation MBT
M60A1, ARMOR=4, STRIKE=7, 2nd generation MBT
Iraq-
T-54/55, ARMOR=4, STRIKE=7
T-62, ARMOR= 4, STRIKE=7, 2nd generation MBT
T-72M, ARMOR=6, STRIKE=7, 2nd generation MBT with composite armor

A 2nd generation MBT gets +1 on the SHOOT roll, +1 ACQUIRE die, AIM is not lost if moving or the target moves, and change any die to AIM. Composite armor (soviet) gives +1 to the save roll versus HEAT rounds, but I can't find any mention of tanks using HEAT rounds during this time period. It was mainly for missiles.

Just my $0.02.

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