Charge and post charge

Moderators: Laffe, Vis Bellica

User avatar
abikapi2
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:10 pm

Charge and post charge

Post by abikapi2 »

Yesterday we had a tricky situation:

Two french column not massed are in front of two Russian lines, partially one beyond the other.

FFFF1 FFFF2
FFFF1 FFFF2

RRRRRRRRRRR1

RRRRRRRRRRR2

Column F1 declared charge on R1 column F2 declared charge on R2.
In the Charge Test R1 rout and F1 breakthrough reaching R2 that firing drive it off

Then the charge of F2 how is the charge test resolved? Can R2 fire newly on F2?

What is the exact sequence of the operations?

R1 charge, then Breakthrough or R1 charge, R2 charge then Breakthrougn?

Inverting the order of charges the result doesn't appear to change.

Thank You
Stefano

Archdukek
Posts: 4820
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Charge and post charge

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Stefano,
Not sure that you can do that. The French columns would have to be on Infantry Assault Orders for both columns to charge and also be within 15cm[9"] of R2 for any charge to be declared against it since otherwise there is no Line of Sight from F2 to R2. (Para 15, p 41).

Assuming both those circumstances apply, R2 probably still can't be charged because the defender will have to commit it to act as rear support to R1 (para 3 on page 44). If R1 is then broken, R2 will be forced to retire.(para 12, page 49).

Looks to me like both French columns would have to declare charges against R1 and resolve that as a Multi unit charge. Or have I misunderstood something?

John

User avatar
abikapi2
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Charge and post charge

Post by abikapi2 »

The text format has lost the distances between the units, let's try in this way
The French Brigade has Infantry Assault order, the Column are not massed being at more than 5cm between each other, the Units are at charge distance.


____________FFFF1________FFFF2
____________FFFF1________FFFF2

_________RRRRRRRRRRR1

______________RRRRRRRRRRR2


Sorry for the problem
Stefano

Archdukek
Posts: 4820
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Charge and post charge

Post by Archdukek »

Thanks Stefano, that's clearer.
Paragraph 1 on page 39 says that all of a player's charges are carried out simultaneously. So both F1 and F2 would charge their respective targets and the charge procedures would be conducted in parallel and not sequentially.
So it would be R1 charge and R2 charge then work out the consequences of any breakthrough if R2 is still standing in position.

John

User avatar
abikapi2
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Charge and post charge

Post by abikapi2 »

Thank You, So R2 fires on F2, but non on the breakthrough of R1

Thank You
Stefano

Archdukek
Posts: 4820
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Charge and post charge

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Stefano,
R2 will fire on F2 prior to resolving the Charge Procedure for those two units. If F2 closes to Melee then R2 will be unable to fire upon the breakthrough of F1 since its in Melee.

However, if F2 is thrown back or halted before contact, then R2 should be able to give defensive fire against F1 as it Charges On in the breakthrough. If it was within 6" of R1 when it routed then R2 will be Unformed and fire an Inferior volley.

John

User avatar
abikapi2
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:10 pm

Re: Charge and post charge

Post by abikapi2 »

So, in the second case, if F2 is halted before contact by Fire of R2, R2 can Fire a second time when F1 Breakthrough on it?

Stefano

Archdukek
Posts: 4820
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Charge and post charge

Post by Archdukek »

abikapi2 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:31 pm
So, in the second case, if F2 is halted before contact by Fire of R2, R2 can Fire a second time when F1 Breakthrough on it?

Stefano
I can't see anything in the rules to prohibit F2 firing a second time if F1 carries out a Charge On move. My understanding that when conducting a Charge On move against a fresh target you follow the standard charge procedure including the option for the new charge target to use defensive fire, though that fire may be impaired and of limited effectiveness if R1 has routed through R2.

If R1 has routed through R2 then a roll of '7' or less on the Fire Table will result in a Loss of Fire Discipline, while you would need to roll an 11 or 12 to trigger a Discipline Test on F1.

John

EQUITES
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:50 am
Location: MILAN, Italy

Re: Charge and post charge

Post by EQUITES »

Hi John,
as far as the general rule states :
"Units fire once per move, either in the Charge phase in response to a
Charge or in the Fire phase",
my feeling is that R2 has no time to reload in this case .... :o
Michele

Archdukek
Posts: 4820
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Charge and post charge

Post by Archdukek »

Thanks Michele. For some reason I couldn't find that sentence when looking for the answer to Stefano's question despite a search. Hidden in plain sight! :oops:

John

Post Reply