Elan with column and Retreat interpenetrating supports

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javimon
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:05 pm

Elan with column and Retreat interpenetrating supports

Post by javimon »

Hi everybody, my name is Javier and I am new to General d´Armee and to napoleonics in general, being dragged to this period by what I consider an excellent ruleset.

Our playing group has around five or six games under the belt and, although we play more smoothly each game, we still have some questions about certain parts of the rules, so I would greatly appreciate help from this forum (specific questions are in bold).

1- Elan and column

The rules says that in a "Melee with Élan" result "the lead unit in Melee gains an extra Casualty Die. If Infantry in Attack Column, gain two extra Casualty Dice." Afterwards there is a melee example of a unit without Elan but in column: "As they are attacking in Column, they are also classed as Meleeing with Élan, so gain a further two dice, totalling eight dice"

So it is clear that a unit in column gains two dice in melee regardless of having a "Melee with Élan" result, and a unit with "Melee with Élan" but not in column gains one dice. The question is: A unit with Elan and in column gains three dice, or just two?

2- Retire, Retreat and supports

Page 83 describes Retire: "The unit has lost formation and must immediately fall back the full Retire move, or to behind a supporting Close Order unit. A retiring Close Order unit is Unformed and should be marked with an Unformed marker, (not applicable to skirmishers).
a. Retiring units move back either within a 45° rearward arc or back towards their own lines, in a straight line. Close Order retiring units may interpenetrate friendly Close Order units but will make them become Unformed."

Retreat goes as follows: "The unit must immediately Retreat the full move or to behind a supporting Close Order unit. The unit should be marked with a Retreat marker.
a. Retreating units move directly away from the enemy for the first 10cm [6"] of the initial Retreat move. Close Order units will break through any friendly units behind and within this distance and make them become Unformed. From then on, the retreating unit must Retreat either in a 45° rearward arc or back towards their own lines, in a straight line."

Page 42 descibes support: "Infantry Supports: A rear or flank supporting unit must start from within 5cm [3"] of either the lead charge unit if attacking or target unit when defending.

Cavalry Supports: A rear supporting Cavalry unit must start from within 10cm [6"] of either the lead charge unit if attacking, or target unit when defending. A flank Cavalry supporting unit must start from within 5cm [3"] of either the lead charge unit or target unit."

Rear Support Definition: having 50% or more of the supporting unit directly behind the lead unit.

Support rerolls are voluntary. The player may always choose whether or not to use a support reroll. The attacker uses his support rerolls first or may pass. Then the defender elects to reroll or pass. If player has initially passed, this does not stop a reroll at a later time in response to the opponent’s reroll."

Let´s say an infantry battalion has rear support from another infantry unit, the supporting unit must be at 3" and at least 50% behind. Now the lead unit Retires or Retreats and has to pass through the support and both become unformed. In fact, a Retreat result will always make the lead unit pass through the support as it must move 6" directly backwards. The question is: do supporting units always get interpenetrated and thus become unformed when the lead unit Retires o Retreats?

Another question: as support rolls are voluntary, does that mean that if I choose not to reroll, the supporting unit/s is not considered a support, or they are always considered support if they comply with the conditions to be so?

Retiring and Retreating units (and routing ones) fall back all the retire or retreat distance or stop "behind a supporting Close Order unit". Does it mean that they can only stop the retreat if there was at least a rear supporting unit? If the retreating unit had no rear support, is there another way to stop the move, for example interpenetrating a not supporting unit? Must the retreating unit always interpenetrate another unit to stop the retreat, or can it slide to get behind a nearby friendly unit?

Well, that´s it for now. Thank you!

Javier.

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DCRBrown
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: Elan with column and Retreat interpenetrating supports

Post by DCRBrown »

J,

1- Elan and column

The rules says that in a "Melee with Élan" result "the lead unit in Melee gains an extra Casualty Die. If Infantry in Attack Column, gain two extra Casualty Dice." Afterwards there is a melee example of a unit without Elan but in column: "As they are attacking in Column, they are also classed as Meleeing with Élan, so gain a further two dice, totalling eight dice"

So it is clear that a unit in column gains two dice in melee regardless of having a "Melee with Élan" result, and a unit with "Melee with Élan" but not in column gains one dice. The question is: A unit with Elan and in column gains three dice, or just two?

It's just 2 dice, as the only result for a Column in Melee with infantry is Melee with Elan.

2- Retire, Retreat and supports
The question is: do supporting units always get interpenetrated and thus become unformed when the lead unit Retires o Retreats?

If it's a Charge situation, and the lead unit Retires or Retreats then all supports will also Retire. No interpenetration. (Though as all will be unformed it's basically mot point.)

Another question: as support rolls are voluntary, does that mean that if I choose not to reroll, the supporting unit/s is not considered a support, or they are always considered support if they comply with the conditions to be so?

No. If they are part of the charge and within support distance they are classed as supports. You don't have to take a support reroll, if for instance you had two supporting units, if you rolled a 6 for the first support you can decided not to roll for the second support, as its unlikely to roll a 6 as well.


Retiring and Retreating units (and routing ones) fall back all the retire or retreat distance or stop "behind a supporting Close Order unit". Does it mean that they can only stop the retreat if there was at least a rear supporting unit? If the retreating unit had no rear support, is there another way to stop the move, for example interpenetrating a not supporting unit? Must the retreating unit always interpenetrate another unit to stop the retreat, or can it slide to get behind a nearby friendly unit?

This refers to any other friendly unit, and not just charge supports. The retreating unit does not have to interpenetrate (other than being within 10cms/6") and can halt behind the support by going around as the retreats are no longer in a proper formation.

Hope that helps.

DB

javimon
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:05 pm

Re: Elan with column and Retreat interpenetrating supports

Post by javimon »

Thank you very much Mr. Brown, your answers have been very helpful.

If I understood right the retreat answers:

- As units that Retire/Retrear/Rout get unformed, and their supporting units have to Retire and thus get unformed too, it doesn´t matter if they interpenetrate each other as anyway they will end unformed.

- Units that Retire/Retreat/Rout can pass through friendly units without unforming them as they are not in formation while "fleeing" (column of mob, maybe?), except the first 6" in a Retreat/Rout, where friendly units interpenetrated will get unformed. In any case they stop fleeing behind the friendly unit.

Thank you again and regards,

Javier.

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