Faltering in a charge

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Maturin
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:21 am

Faltering in a charge

Post by Maturin »

Hi Everyone,
Playing in lockdown is a lonely business...Here is what came up with me vs me yesterday (PS I lost again)
My charging column plus supports moves to the 5cm point and gets fired upon.
D6 from defensive fire gives a DT which the chargers pass and also a DESTINY in which the general suffers an UNSIGHTLY DEMISE and the brigade falters.
Does the charge carry on or fail?
If fail what is the status of the charging unit? unformed? halt? retire? if halt - can it fire?
If carry on (and as brigade is now in FALTER) does this cancel the charging support rolls?
Thanks in advance
M

Archdukek
Posts: 5141
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Faltering in a charge

Post by Archdukek »

Hi M,
Interesting question.
Without checking the rules, I’d say that the order to charge has already been given and implemented so the charging unit would continue but suffer the penalty for being part of a Faltering Brigade when working out the Charge Procedure.
I’d certainly be strongly inclined to cancel any benefits of supporting units though as the Brigade has fallen into confusion through the loss of its commander.

John

Maturin
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Faltering in a charge

Post by Maturin »

Hi John
Thanks for the speedy reply, yes at the time I took this route (too many loose ends if you start asking do I retreat, retire, throw again?).
If the DT had failed this would have sent the unit as unformed and tipped the balance in the ensuing melee, but as it was the charge was successful
which made me think what my concept of faltering and unformed are. By preventing the support rolls (and not just giving them a -1) the falter gave more disadvantage that being unformed (from a failed DT) in the charge itself but less disadvantage in the melee. Later looking through the rules I realised that if this brigade had been demoralised it would have dispersed immediately though which gave me some doubt and made me think that I might have needed to have taken a throw on the faltering brigade table to sort out if the falter made the unit fall back in some way....as always - too much thinking gets in the way.
Cheers
M

polish lancer
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 2:48 am

Re: Faltering in a charge

Post by polish lancer »

A real interesting question. Had a look over the book and... I feel that if a DT result is applied immediately then the Destiny is the same therefore as this makes he charges hesitant, I think they stop at 5cm in confusion.

EQUITES
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:50 am
Location: MILAN, Italy

Re: Faltering in a charge

Post by EQUITES »

IMO the charge continues with penalties of faltering brigade.
Michele

Contrarius
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:35 pm

Re: Faltering in a charge

Post by Contrarius »

Maturin wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 8:41 am
Hi Everyone,
Playing in lockdown is a lonely business...Here is what came up with me vs me yesterday (PS I lost again)
Sounds like you’re a glass half-full kinda guy.

I’m currently playing with myself (phnurr, phnurr...) and guess what, I’m winning!

polish lancer
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 2:48 am

Re: Faltering in a charge

Post by polish lancer »

EQUITES wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 3:08 pm
IMO the charge continues with penalties of faltering brigade.
Gotta love these discussions!

The FAQ -
Infantry Assault Order.
For an Assault order to be successfully received the brigade
must obey orders on the turn the Assault order was issued. If the brigade fails its command
roll the order has not got through and will need to be re-issued in the following turn/s, at the
2 ADC cost. But once successfully in place the order remains fixed, regardless of any future
hesitant command roll results, until the order is completed, changed or a Faltering Brigade
command roll changes the situation.


So my view is that there is a change in how the brigade function once a faltering occurs.

Archdukek
Posts: 5141
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Faltering in a charge

Post by Archdukek »

polish lancer wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 4:08 am
[quote=EQUITES post_id=85308 time=<a href="tel:1590419329">1590419329</a> user_id=1754]
IMO the charge continues with penalties of faltering brigade.
Gotta love these discussions!
So my view is that there is a change in how the brigade function once a faltering occurs.
[/quote]
I agree about enjoying these discussions but I disagree with your conclusion.

That example from the FAQ is dealing with the specific circumstances of an Infantry Assault Order which is unusual in that it can extend over multiple turns. I don’t think you can say that automatically applies in the situation Maturin originally described.

On page 35 in the definition of Hesitant and Falter it says that both involve command confusion on the part of the Brigade command. However, in the case that Maturin raised the Brigade had been under Orders in the Command phase and a Charge declaration had been properly made and the Charge procedure was being carried through. All that was to be determined was whether the individual chargers could brave any defensive fire and carry on the charge. In this case they did by passing the Discipline Test, that’s all they had to do before completing the Charge Procedure.

The death of the Brigadier wouldn’t have directly affected that in my view, he’d already given his order to the chargers who were complying with it. However, it could impact on the coordination of any supporting units in the assault. So denying the chargers the benefit of support re-rolls both feels right and is consistent with the sentence on page 35 under “Falter” that:
“Supports cannot be committed into a charge combat (no D6 rerolls) though they may still offer support fire.”

Given that the charge is In reality a dynamic process and the pause at the 5cm point is merely a convenient rule device, I still feel that it’s more realistic to allow the charging unit to proceed to complete the charge but without the benefits of any supports and with the penalty that it’s Brigade is now Faltering.

John

polish lancer
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 2:48 am

Re: Faltering in a charge

Post by polish lancer »

fair argument John! I think either works as long as its consistent. I never had this happen in a game yet, but that it the beauty of it all.

Archdukek
Posts: 5141
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Faltering in a charge

Post by Archdukek »

polish lancer wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 8:49 am
fair argument John! I think either works as long as its consistent. I never had this happen in a game yet, but that it the beauty of it all.
Completely agree. Something that needs an immediate judgement call and a discussion later which is one of the great benefits of this Forum.

John

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