Opportunity charge.

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bellebsc
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:57 am

Opportunity charge.

Post by bellebsc » Fri May 17, 2019 4:12 pm

Hi John

I won initiative so declare my cav charge towards a french cav unit, however I have an enemy cav unit to my flank who declares an opportunity charge to stop my cav . All good so far but my question is as my original target of the charge is no longer going to be charged as I'm now the target of the french on my flank is the original french cav unit free to make his own charge declaration??

Thanks
R

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Polish Lancer
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Re: Opportunity charge.

Post by Polish Lancer » Sat May 18, 2019 1:19 am

Yes I would think so as it is no longer a target.

nikjen66
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:20 pm
Location: Cambridge UK

Re: Opportunity charge.

Post by nikjen66 » Sat May 18, 2019 3:01 pm

Page 39 states the phasing player declares charges followed by the non-phasing player.

By the time you get to Opportunity Charges surely you’ve passed the charge declaration phase?? And prior to this the charge target would have to declare its reaction and therefore been committed for the remainder of the turn.

Just my observations, otherwise not much point in having the initiative!!

bellebsc
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Re: Opportunity charge.

Post by bellebsc » Sat May 18, 2019 3:10 pm

No. The opportunity charge is part of the charge procedure as it's the non phasing player taking away the phasing players initiative as long as they our outwith the 9cm mark.

Archdukek
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Re: Opportunity charge.

Post by Archdukek » Sat May 18, 2019 4:16 pm

Hi R,
Actually I think nikjen66 is correct and you cannot subsequently declare a charge with the original target unit.
The sequence for the Charge phase is set out on page 26 and confirmed on page 38, namely:
2) Phasing Player declares charges;
3) Non-phasing Player declares charges;
4) Phasing Player carries out charges;
5) Non-phasing Player carries out charges.

Since Opportunity Charges don't happen until the Phasing player starts to carry out his charges then the chance to declare a separate charge by the non-phasing player has passed. To me this makes sense because it's effectively the forward motion of the phasing player's unit which triggers a reaction from the opportunity chargers.

John

bigduke1327
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Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 9:17 pm

Re: Opportunity charge.

Post by bigduke1327 » Sat May 18, 2019 4:41 pm

No, you need to re-read page 51 Opportunity Charges
This permits the Non-Phasing player to declare a Cavalry Charge in order to intercept a declared enemy Charge by the Phasing Player. The non-phasing player must state which unit he intends to Opportunity Charge and launches his charge first, in effect interrupting the Phasing Player by seizing the “local initiative”. The Phasing Player’s Charge is now cancelled and the Opportunity Charge is carried out using the normal Charge procedure. If both players order Opportunity Charges involving opposing units, the Phasing Player will have priority.
The non-phasing players Opportunity charge takes place IN the phasing players charge phase (and indeed takes priority) so as it says on page 51, as long as the Opportunity Chargers pass their Disciplne Test the original phasing players charge is cancelled, therefore any original target now does not have a charge being declared on it so is free to do what they want in the non-phasing players charge phase.

Also see example 'E' on page 52.

Mart

JimLeCat
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Location: Durham, England

Re: Opportunity charge.

Post by JimLeCat » Sat May 18, 2019 5:20 pm

Actually, I think p.51 just proves John correct. Point 4 at the end of the Procedure section states 'After the resolution of the Opportunity Charge, the “interruption”
ceases and Phasing Player carries on with his remaining Charges.' The last part I have put in bold means that we are into the second part of the charge procedure and all charge declarations have been made, so the erstwhile target unit cannot now declare a charge...

Cheers,
Jim

Archdukek
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Re: Opportunity charge.

Post by Archdukek » Sat May 18, 2019 5:59 pm

Hi Mart,
I don't think that page 51 alters the situation at all. It clearly says that an Opportunity a Charge interrupts the Phasing player's conducting of his charge and cancels that charge. However, that all happens after all charges on both sides have been declared. So the non-phasing player can't go back a step and declare a fresh charge with the original target unit.

The rules are clear that you only start working through the charge process after all charges have been declared.

John

bigduke1327
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon May 22, 2017 9:17 pm

Re: Opportunity charge.

Post by bigduke1327 » Sat May 18, 2019 9:07 pm

Sorry guys, I still don't read it that way.

At the point when the target of the original charge would declare their reaction to being charged, the non-phasing player declares his Opportunity Charge instead.

If the Opportunity Charge is successful (they pass their Discipline Test) then the original charge is cancelled. So there is no charge to react to, and no target. The original charging unit is now the target of the opportunity charging unit.

Hopefully we can get DB to clear this up cos that's how we've been playing it.

Mart

nikjen66
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Location: Cambridge UK

Re: Opportunity charge.

Post by nikjen66 » Sat May 18, 2019 9:22 pm

Hi Mart,

You’ve got to follow the sequence.

1. The phasing player declares charges
2. Non-phasing player declares charges. The object of the phasing players charge cannot declare at charge at this point as its responding raptors being charged.
3. The phasing player physically moves his units that are charging and resolves them, followed by the non phasing player.
4. At this stage either side can declare opportunity charges as the other conducts their charge. So we’re outside the charge declaration phase.

Or at least that’s my interpretation. And I could be completely wrong.

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