Italian Organisation

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Richard
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Italian Organisation

Post by Richard »

Evening all. I'm looking for data on Italians and having real issues finding anything. Does anyone know of any sources for their organisation? Line troops I am okay with, I'm also pretty sure with Bersaglieri, but stuff like Alpini, Black shirts and other less standard stuff is hard to access. Also military manuals from the late 1930's would be of interest.

Cheers

Rich

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Arlequín
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Re: Italian Organisation

Post by Arlequín »

Rich, you probably already have these, but just in case...

U.S. Handbook 1943 - https://archive.org/details/TME30-420
While dated 1943, the information would have been gathered sometime previously from Italian documents, so probably no later than 1942, possibly earlier.

Italian Infantry Manual 1939 Part 1 - http://www.regioesercito.it/regioeserci ... numil8.htm

Part 2 Tactical Combat - http://www.regioesercito.it/regioeserci ... numil9.htm

Part 3 Scouting, Camo and Coms - http://www.regioesercito.it/regioeserci ... umil10.htm

There's more on mule management and chemical warfare but I doubt you want that.

Organisation MSVN- http://www.regioesercito.it/milizia/mvsn_org.htm
This last gives the unit names as they correspond to Army units, but no actual structure. As far as I know they used the same organisation as the Army.

I've yet to come across a Bersaglieri manual of any kind, but I understand they kept the old three squad pattern, each of thirteen men. Both these and the Alpini are coming up as 404 errors on the RE site.

Jim

Lowtardog
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Re: Italian Organisation

Post by Lowtardog »

Hi Rich I found this a while ago when googling and obsessing over the Empress Italians and then thinking about adding in some Perry Italians too, not sure if any use to you as pretty high level orgs http://www.talpo.it/files/order-of-batt ... a-1943.pdf



For other reference there are a few Ospreys but sure you will know that. I will see what I have on my cloud hiding away :D

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BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: Italian Organisation

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften »

Arlequín wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:49 pm
There's more on mule management and chemical warfare but I doubt you want that.
Well, not for this particular hobby at least...... 8-)
No plan survives first contact with the dice.

sackatatties
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Re: Italian Organisation

Post by sackatatties »

Some of the stuff I did for the Battle of the Sunflowers (east front 42) is here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sy3br8fjtr5d ... 9Qzta?dl=0

There are references in most of these. Hopefully you speak Italian....

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Italian Organisation

Post by Truscott Trotter »

sackatatties wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:26 am
Some of the stuff I did for the Battle of the Sunflowers (east front 42) is here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sy3br8fjtr5d ... 9Qzta?dl=0

There are references in most of these. Hopefully you speak Italian....

quattro vino rossi
Does that count?

sackatatties
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Re: Italian Organisation

Post by sackatatties »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:41 am
quattro vino rossi
Does that count?
Only if it comes with a 16" quattro stagioni with extra mozzarella :shock: :twisted:

Richard
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Re: Italian Organisation

Post by Richard »

Many thanks for that chaps. Most helpful.

Cheers

Rich

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Vanth
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Re: Italian Organisation

Post by Vanth »

If you need any translation from the italian just let me know
Vanth
"...there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in thyne philosophy..."

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Arlequín
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Re: Italian Organisation

Post by Arlequín »

I did have a source that gave Bersaglieri motociclisti as being in squads of six (Squad leader, LMG gunner + 4 men, 4 motorcycles), with four squads to a platoon. Their motorised platoons were 13 (Squad leader, assistant squad leader, LMG gunner and ten men), with three squads to a platoon.

I can't locate the original source material, so take that for what it is. This site gives a similar pattern post-1938: http://www.museomilitare.it/bersaglieri ... -uniformi/ but again no original source.

It might be equally likely that the motociclisti platoons may have actually have been two big squads of twelve (same organisation as the motorised squads, less 1 man), judging by some photos. In either case the LMG gunner and the squad leader(s) seem to have rode solo, while the riflemen were two per motorcycle; some Desert War photos do show everyone riding solo however.

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