Pacific campaign Lists?

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vlad
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:39 am

Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by vlad »

Hi All

I see there is a list for the early war Japanese invasions, has there been a late war list produced?
I would like to game the mid to later stages of the war with US the Marines island hopping, but also the oft forgotten commonwealth forces, if any one can point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.

Vlad

Munin
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Re: Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by Munin »

Paging Len Tracey. Len Tracey, please report to the thread!

Len has done a ton of research about the Pacific theater, and was the architect behind the Malaya campaign that came out in one of the Winter Specials (which you should get if you don't already have, because it also has additional rules for jungle fighting). He'll almost certainly have more info for you.

NickW
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Re: Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by NickW »

There are also '42-'45 Japanese and '41-'42 US Marine lists in the Lardie's DropBox file:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eu6yxhtvr56n ... H9lfa?dl=0

Munin
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Re: Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by Munin »

Hello, TFL DropBox account! I did not know you existed!

Len Tracey
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Re: Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by Len Tracey »

G'day all, just caught this thread.
As Munin has indicated, the 2015 Christmas Special has my stuff on early war Japanese and Australian forces in Malaya, as well as the jungle rules I wrote to support it. You can support Richard by purchasing it as it is a PDF.
More than happy to help further vlad, if you want. Send me a PM if you like or add to this thread.
I am leaving for a military exercise on Friday and will be gone for some time, so you may need to be patient for a while. I'll definitely get back to you once I return though. Sorry I can't be more specific.
Cheers.

vlad
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:39 am

Re: Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by vlad »

Hi Len, thanks for taking the time to respond, especially with your looming exercises.
I was primarily looking for army lists for the later war Japanese composition, but has since thrown up some more aspects, such as your notes which I will go purchase as it sounds like a very useful source, the dropbox facility as suggested by NickW ( there is one list for Japanese 42-45) not sure if this is for army or navy though, if indeed they were the same?
I have a growing fascination with the Pacific theatre, it seems often overlooked.Maybe something to do with being in the other hemisphere :)

Thanks all for taking the time to help, please keep it coming, soaking it up :D

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Teufelhunden
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Re: Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by Teufelhunden »

Here is a link to the mid-war E-Series USMC list.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8Dm_- ... s=562c75fd

Here is a link to the late-war F&G-Series USMC list.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8Dm_- ... sp=sharing

Also a link to the late-war F&G-Series USMC thread for a couple of answers to questions. (Note use the 2nd link further down in the thread if downloading from the thread)

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3792

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Steve McG
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Re: Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by Steve McG »

Vlad,

With Len being out and about I will take up the slack a bit and see what I can provide.

The trouble getting to the detail of late war Japanese organisation is that the documentary evidence is very hard to find. This is why Len’s work on the original Japanese sources is worth waiting for. Additionally, even with some good documents, you will find that as the Empire came under pressure each local command was forced to adopt its own organisation based on the forces that it had available. In this way Japanese forces in most locations were often unique.

Having said all this, I would strongly recommend that you download a copy of the Handbook on Japanese Forces. This PDF can be found on the web (though I forget where I got mine). It was issued by the US Department of War in 1944 and is very detailed.

It deals with organisation, tactics and equipment as well as a number of other issues.

Within this document it describes Infantry Rifle Coy Type B and Infantry Rifle Coy Type A. This later type (A) also came with a heavy Weapon PL under command sometimes.

Type B = 3x Rifle PL with 54 men in each PL.
The Platoon is organised as follows:
Pl Commander (Lieutenant)
Liaison NCO
3 x Sections with LMG NCO and 12 Men
1x Grenade Discharger section (with NCO 3 x Dischargers-12 men)

Type A = 3 Rifle PL with 62 men in each PL.
The Platoon followed a similar organisation as follows:
Pl Commander (Lieutenant)
Liaison NCO
3 x Sections with LMG, NCO and 14 Men
1x Grenade Discharger section (with NCO 4 x Dischargers- 16 men)

You will find this organisation very similar to the Early War lists that are available. There is no discussion on why Type A or B were used or where they were used. (or even why one had more men than the other + an extra Discharger).

Now in the research of SW Pacific and on the Islands you referred to you will notice that there were a number of Independent Regiments and Battalions. These were “Nondivisional” forces and were created for “special duties”. These forces could be anything! A bit of checking will find that you should be able to get some details on a specific Island. What I have noticed is that these Independent units tended to try a follow the structure of the “Divisional” infantry units. So they might still have 3 sections, for example, but these are understrength or with no Grenade Dischargers etc.

I hope this helps a bit. Basically information is rare but the handbook I have referenced is often used by others as their source.

I am happy to answer questions or try for more details if needed.

Steve
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore. ... Neil Armstrong

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Seret
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Re: Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by Seret »

Steve McG wrote:There is no discussion on why Type A or B were used or where they were used.
I am by no means an expert on the IJA, but my understanding is that Type A was a continental warfare unit. It was much bigger, better equipped and more of a manoeuvre unit intended for fighting in Manchuria/China. The Type B units were stripped back ones for island hopping and defensive ops in the Pacific.

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Steve McG
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Re: Pacific campaign Lists?

Post by Steve McG »

Seret,

Yes I would have to agree with you on that. But I am no expert either and there are some differences in opinion out there. At the risk of muddying the discussion a bit (cos this is bigger than PL organisation) I will expand a bit more. :geek:

What I was referring to specifically was the Infantry Regt/Battalion. Earlier in the document I referred to, they detail the organisation of the Infantry Division (classification and strength. There is a brief discussion about the different types. It says that the Japanese had three categories A(Strongest) B(Standard) C(Special). But it then goes on to say that this is NOT a hard and fast rule Eg: "a B type division often may have type A artillery".

It also goes onto say that in general Japanese divisions come in the following classifications:

1. Standard :Encountered in present operational areas.

2. Strengthened : Composed of Type A units and NOT encountered in its entirety in the field.

3. Strengthened (modified) : Mostly seen early in the war.

4. Special : Lighter with mostly Type C units. Found mostly in Garrison and antiguerilla activities in China.

Take from this what you want. Personally I see that the Japanese had a basic structure that they would modify to the task at hand using what troops they had available. Generally at PL level it would mean 3 Rifle sections (incl. LMG) supported by a Grenade Discharger section.

The Support List would also vary a bit but SFMGs + Infantry Guns and 20mm ATRs are often available.

I would finish by repeating Len's suggestion to have a look at the Special with Malaya 42 within it. The list there provides a sound basis and the Jungle Rules are good with some interesting and subtle components.

Steve
There's a fundamental truth to our nature. Man must explore. ... Neil Armstrong

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