Shock and leaders

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MLB
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Shock and leaders

Post by MLB »

I have a 6 man rifle team 6" away from the section's 3 man bren team. The JL is in between both teams and within 4" of each. I assume this means he is attached to both teams. If the rifle team has 7 points of shock they will not be pinned because the attached leader counts as part of the team for calculating the number of men. If the Bren team accumulates 4 points of shock, will the same thing apply, that is they will not be pinned because the attached leader makes them a four man team for calculating pin effects? In other words does the attached JL count twice to prevent both teams pinning?
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Munin
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Re: Shock and leaders

Post by Munin »

I'd say that if the JL is between them and less than 4" from both, then they're not separate teams. From the 2nd paragraph of the section on Unit Integrity:

"A soldier, or Group of soldiers, who are more than 4” from the rest of their Unit become a separate Team."

The JL is part of the unit, therefore neither team can claim to be more than 4 inches from the "rest of their unit," and therefore I'd treat the whole group as a single section. This removes the possibility of "double counting" the JL for purposes of accumulated shock.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Shock and leaders

Post by Truscott Trotter »

If you search you will find a long thread were I was bluntly told not only were the teams not one section but I was cheating for even suggesting that they would be joined by the JL - good luck with that

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Re: Shock and leaders

Post by Munin »

Well they're still separate teams, but since they're within the 4" limit, they use their total number of men for pinning/breaking calculation purposes. It's easy for your 3-man BAR team with 6 shock to hang tough when they've got 8 unshocked guys around them cheering them on. They won't move much and can't shoot for a damn, but they won't break.

As for the JL "joining" a team, that's one of the key elements to deciding whether or not he can be targeted separately or whether he might be hit if the team sustains casualties. If he's within 4", he's attached. That's pretty unambiguous in the rules.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Shock and leaders

Post by Truscott Trotter »

The two teams must be within 4" for them to count as one section the position of the Jl is irrelevant as it does not count as part of either team foir this purpose thats all I am saying

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Re: Shock and leaders

Post by Archdukek »

As TT says, the 2 teams must be within 4" of each other to count as a section and share shock. Rich Clarke confirmed that in the long thread which TT referred to.

As for the JL being "attached" to both teams in the original post, I'd probably allow it. It's unlikely to arise much in practice and it keeps life simple.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Shock and leaders

Post by Truscott Trotter »

If the Bren team accumulates 4 points of shock, will the same thing apply, that is they will not be pinned because the attached leader makes them a four man team for calculating pin effects? In other words does the attached JL count twice to prevent both teams pinning?

This is the problem John?

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SteveBurt
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Re: Shock and leaders

Post by SteveBurt »

To be attached to a team the JL must be with a team - not hanging round between them.
I think a leader needs to be within an inch or so of a team member to be attached,
So in the scenario given I'd say the JL is not attached to either team (but is in command range of both)

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Re: Shock and leaders

Post by SteveBurt »

Have a look at the diagram at the bottom of page 18, which illustrates exactly this.
The leader is not attached to either team.

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Re: Shock and leaders

Post by SteveBurt »

But I now see I'm wrong - it says on page 21 that if he's within 4" he is attached - so in the original situation he's attached to both teams. But they don't form a section as they are too far apart.
The leader isn't part of either team, so he doesn't join them together.
He also doesn't count as a member of either team for the purposes of computing excess shock.
Look at the example on page 62.
So in the original example both teams would be pinned as both have excess shock.

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