Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Moderators: Vis Bellica, Laffe

BLabrum^
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:06 am

Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by BLabrum^ »

Fire Against Crewed Weapons (p.44 CoC rulebook) specifies that a gun shield will add one level of cover to any cover which the crew is in. When applying Target Definitions (p.33 CoC rulebook) is the cover before the gun shield or after used for the purpose of determining divided hits (i.e. can a firing unit concentrate fire on the gun shielded crew)?
User avatar
Truscott Trotter
Posts: 8789
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 pm
Location: Tasmania the Southernmost CoC in the world

Re: Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Cover s used not gun sheild for determining hits. It is about visibility. The gun shield modifies the kill result however.
Peter
Posts: 1606
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:41 pm

Re: Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by Peter »

If the gun with shield is in the open, and an infantry team in the open is within 4", I would say that as per the rules you could concentrate on the infantry or the crew, as they are in different cover.

Peter
Slynx
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:01 pm

Re: Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by Slynx »

So .... totally opposite opinions from TT and Peter
Levi the Ox
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:57 pm

Re: Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by Levi the Ox »

I'd apply it at the same time as cover, it is their (portable) cover.
User avatar
Iztvan
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:04 am
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by Iztvan »

Slynx wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:34 pm So .... totally opposite opinions from TT and Peter
Not quite, they are talking about different things.

The to hit number (4+ for regulars at close, 5+ at effective) does not change. But you are allowed to fokus on the guys in the open and ignore the guys in light cover.

The crew behind the shield then roll casualities as if in light cover (if fired at by small arms and not behind further cover), the infantry section as if in the open 8if not behind further cover).
Twitter @Staffan_G
User avatar
Truscott Trotter
Posts: 8789
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:11 pm
Location: Tasmania the Southernmost CoC in the world

Re: Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by Truscott Trotter »

CH 8 says you must spread hits to teams within 4" ifin the same cover.

Both teams are in the open so the hits are spread.

Those hitting the gun team they are rolled at light cover level cos of gunshield.

That's how we play it, otherwise you can almost always concentrate on gun crew and deploying supporting infantry a waste of time.
User avatar
john de terre neuve
Posts: 2118
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:37 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by john de terre neuve »

I agree with TT, for the exact reason that he states. There is a lack of clarity I believe about this in the rules as we recently had a look at it. Like TT points out, gun teams would be toast pretty quickly if they were unable to share hits with other teams within 4".

John
User avatar
Capt Fortier
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:49 am
Location: Canberra, Australia
Contact:

Re: Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by Capt Fortier »

The rules and FAQs do seem somewhat ambiguous on whether the same or different level of cover here, but even if we accept that the gun shield does mean the gun is in different cover, I would think the guidance on firing on targets in different cover (8.3.1) suggests that you could only concentrate your fire on the target in the LOWER cover, "as it would be the better target". I think suggesting the opposite sounds like playing neither the rules nor the period. So going back to the original question ("can a firing unit concentrate fire on the gun shielded crew?"), I'd say the answer is always NO.
Capt Fortier

“Frapper l'ennemi, c'est bien. Frapper l'imagination, c'est mieux.” - Jean de Lattre de Tassigny
User avatar
Iztvan
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:04 am
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Differing Cover and Crewed Weapons with a Shield

Post by Iztvan »

I have interpreted it as Capt Fortier, i.e. you could focus on the infantry in the open, but not on the gun crew behind the shield.

But I'm thinking that the TT suggestion of being *in* cover is what counts, i.e. being in real physical cover (or tactical, pinned etc) is what should count.

I'd like to "play the period, not the rules" but honestly I don't know what that would be in this case, I would have to ask a veteran! :-P
Twitter @Staffan_G
Post Reply