Same team but different cover?

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General Berling
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Same team but different cover?

Post by General Berling »

So I know if the 2 teams in a section are in different cover, the shooter can pick at which one to shoot, but what happens if there's a single team and half of it is behind a building while the other half is in the open? Can those behind the building not be killed as there's no line of sight to them?
And how does it work if a single team is half in heavy cover and half in light cover? Do you treat it as 2 separate teams?


How does it work if another enemy unit obstructs the view to one behind him? In the case of one team being in front of another team in the same section
And in the case of one team from a section is infront a team from another section, realistically you would have to shoot the one in front but what if you nominate to shoot the one behind them, will the team in front block line of sight?

Cheers
Berling
Ja syn ludu polskiego, antifascista, przysięgam, ze do ostatnich sil walcyc bende o niepodleglosc ojczysny.
Archdukek
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Re: Same team but different cover?

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Berling,
When firing you always target a team as your primary target with any hits then split across all teams within 4” irrespective if they are part of the same section or not. Then you roll for effect.

In your first example only those members of the team in the open can be killed. Once they are all dead then any further kill results are ignored because the building provides cover and blocks line of sight to the other team members. However, any shock result applies to the team as a whole whether in the open or in cover.
In the second case, half in heavy cover half in light, any ‘6’ rolled for a kill can apply to both parts, while you will cause Shock on a ‘4’ or ‘5’ since some of the team are in light cover.

Enemy troops will at least partially block line of sight to troops behind so you have to target the ones in front and cannot choose to target one behind, but if the other team behind is within 4” it will share the hits and will have to roll for the effect of those hits. They can be killed since the men in front don’t stop the bullets getting through in the way that a building would.

Hope that helps.

John
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General Berling
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Re: Same team but different cover?

Post by General Berling »

Once again thanks John, you are extremely helpful in every thread I saw you in!
But I do have another quesiton, if thers a teeam within 4" of a team being shot at but they dont share a section, are the hits still split?
Thanks again
Berling
Ja syn ludu polskiego, antifascista, przysięgam, ze do ostatnich sil walcyc bende o niepodleglosc ojczysny.
Archdukek
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Re: Same team but different cover?

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Berling,
Happy to help, we all have to start somewhere. :)
Yes, the hits are split across any team within 4” of the target irrespective of whether they are part of the section.
It’s often a good idea to deploy an infantry section alongside a valuable weapons team like an MMG to absorb some of the enemy fire by sharing hits.

John
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Same team but different cover?

Post by Truscott Trotter »

If possible I like to place 2 teams from 2 different sections near my support wepons, especially ones with small crew numbers like AT weapons or MMG.
Corvusboreus
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Re: Same team but different cover?

Post by Corvusboreus »

My rwo bobs worth:

Regarding how to adjudicate models within a team being in different cover, I reckon that boils down to how literally we want to interpret our tabletop depictions, and some of that can be rendered down to what scale we are using.
The CoC groundscale marches the verticle ratio of 15mm figures.
These are small enough that their bases can allow some fluidity in their 0lacement in and around terrain, and microdetails like squad/team formations and specifically opportunistic targeting of can start to come into play.
With the larger end of scales, groundscale to verticle ratio distortions come into play ( an effect amplified with vehicles), and infantrymen with larger footprints are much harder to deploy within tabletop terrain pieces.
This lends itself to a more abstract interpretation of who is and isn't in cover, more suitable to randomised/aggregated results.


Truscott's suggestion of flanking bigger bang assets with a team per side to form a versatile and durable and is one of those game ploys that has validation in reality.
Support weapon in the middle, machine guns on the the flanks, and a smattering of riflemen in between to help spread the hurt.
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sjwalker51
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Re: Same team but different cover?

Post by sjwalker51 »

Can’t add much to what John has already said, and might be stating the obvious, but in your first example, don’t forget a Leader is still at risk of being hit, even if he’s behind the building with part of the team/section.
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General Berling
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Re: Same team but different cover?

Post by General Berling »

Thanks for the replies!
However officer being hit when completely obstructed seems a bit odd, ill chalk it up to him peeking out to give out orders and then coincidentally gets hit, I thought he would have been treated like the rest, but rules are rules.
thanks for pointing it out!
Berling
Ja syn ludu polskiego, antifascista, przysięgam, ze do ostatnich sil walcyc bende o niepodleglosc ojczysny.
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Capt Fortier
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Re: Same team but different cover?

Post by Capt Fortier »

General Berling wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:32 am However officer being hit when completely obstructed seems a bit odd, ill chalk it up to him peeking out to give out orders and then coincidentally gets hit, I thought he would have been treated like the rest, but rules are rules.
You are spot on with your chalking up! There are some reasonable arguments either way on this one, but Richard Clarke provided some earlier advice on Facebook which has been referenced in an earlier forum post at viewtopic.php?p=61468#p61468:
Well, as we see in several areas, leaders are treated differently to other men. Leaders are considered to be placing themselves at a greater degree of risk in order to exert a positive influence on the men around them, so the risk for leaders remains even if their figure is not visible.
This also seems reasonable given that a leader tests for effect rather than automatically applying a kill. Welcome to the world of Lard and "playing the period, not the rules". :)
Capt Fortier

“Frapper l'ennemi, c'est bien. Frapper l'imagination, c'est mieux.” - Jean de Lattre de Tassigny
Peter
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Re: Same team but different cover?

Post by Peter »

Basically, allowing leaders to hide and still be effective as leaders isn't reasonable. They would be moving around their group, not standing in one place from phase to phase. If you want them to hide (and limit their effectiveness) you need to detach them.
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