Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Moderators: Vis Bellica, Laffe
- Guadalcanal Diarrhea
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- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:14 pm
Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Re: the second BAR in the 1st Raider Battalion squads...they most definitely upgraded where they could, but sadly, not all of the squads had the extra weapons by the time the ball dropped on Edson's Ridge. I can see it being allowed though, but by then every NCO should have an SMG as well.
"One hundred rounds do not constitute firepower. One hit constitutes firepower..."~ Col. Merritt Edson, 1st Raider Battalion, U.S.M.C
Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Len Tracey wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:19 am LTCOL Carlson who had some very "out of the box" ideas on how his unit should operate. Near as I can find, the 2nd Raider Battalion was organized as follows:
PHQ: LT (SL) SMG, GSGT (SL) SMG
3 x squads (10 men) = SGT (JL) SMG & 3 x fire-teams (3 men) SMG + BAR + M1 Garand
Based on my research for the Makin campaign and citing From Makin to Bougainville by Maj Jon Hoffman the layout above is correct for Carlson's 2nd Raiders. The same source has notes on Edson's 1st Raiders platoon layout as well.Len Tracey wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:58 am From what I've red, LTCOL Edson enjoyed more favour with USMC hierachy than LTCOL Carlson (Edson became a general, Carlson didn't).
Carlson's background and as you say "out of the box" ideas are what caused him to be maligned by the USMC hierarchy. Having served in China he brought some Communist ideas, Gung Ho for example, and used them to shape the 2nd Raiders. There was also within the USMC command a belief that any Marine unit would be able to perform the commando style operations that Roosevelt and Carlson envisioned. The "elite within the elite" mentality rubbed the top brass the wrong way.
Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Commandos and Rangers of World War 2 by James Ladd includes a TO&E for Marine Raiders in 1942 as well as a chapter on Raiders in the Pacific. The book’s primary focus of the book per the title is on commandos and Rangers.
- Truscott Trotter
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Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Yup have that book great read, forgot it had pacific stuff I will have to dig it out.
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Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Yes, i have it to. good book. This post prompted me to re-visit it. The organization it has for the Raiders is one of a number I've come across.
From what I can gather, LTCOL Edson and Carlson both organised their platoons differently. When the 3rd and 4th Raider battalions were formed I believe they used the 1st Battalions (LTCOL Edson) organisation. Later, when the 1st and 2nd Raider Regiments were formed, they introduced standard organisations across the regiment, with the two regiments apparently adopting different organisations. I've tracked down what I think are these four different organisations and am trying to confirm them. Very hard to find primary sources on this.
Will keep digging.
From what I can gather, LTCOL Edson and Carlson both organised their platoons differently. When the 3rd and 4th Raider battalions were formed I believe they used the 1st Battalions (LTCOL Edson) organisation. Later, when the 1st and 2nd Raider Regiments were formed, they introduced standard organisations across the regiment, with the two regiments apparently adopting different organisations. I've tracked down what I think are these four different organisations and am trying to confirm them. Very hard to find primary sources on this.
Will keep digging.
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Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Gentlemen, thank you for your work.
- Teufelhunden
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- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:22 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Not sure why, but it is not allowing me to add more than one link...E, F & G series links to follow
Here is a link to a thread with the USMC D-Series list
https://toofatlardies.co.uk/forum/viewt ... =35&t=3002
Here is a link to a thread with the USMC D-Series list
https://toofatlardies.co.uk/forum/viewt ... =35&t=3002
- Teufelhunden
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:22 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Link to a thread for the USMC E-Series list
https://toofatlardies.co.uk/forum/viewt ... =35&t=3111
https://toofatlardies.co.uk/forum/viewt ... =35&t=3111
- Teufelhunden
- Posts: 86
- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:22 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Link to a thread with the F&G series USMC lists
https://toofatlardies.co.uk/forum/viewt ... =35&t=3792
https://toofatlardies.co.uk/forum/viewt ... =35&t=3792
Re: Plans to add the U.S. Marines?
Thank you Teufelhunden.