Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

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john de terre neuve
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Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by john de terre neuve »

Hi,

As part of the build up to my Winter War campaign, I have assembled a truck mounted Quad-Maxim AA Gun. It was in one of the lists of the Skirmish Campaigns "Winter War" scenario book.

Since the Finns had no planes, I suppose I will use it as an AI Gun.

It has a theoretical firing rate of 1800 rounds/min, and is water cooled.

I can not really see throwing 25xD6! Any suggestions how I should use it for CoC. Maybe factoring a significant failure factor.

Thanks,

John
Last edited by john de terre neuve on Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aphillathehun
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Re: Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by aphillathehun »

Well, an MG42 had a rate of fire of up to 1500 rpm. I usually see people talk about it at around 1200. So, maybe 12 dice?

Rolf
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Re: Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by Rolf »

Count FP dice for the single weapon, then, add 50% for the second barrel and then 25% for the next two barrels...add all together for the quad mount.

Given the spread of fire and it's use I think that would be a reasonable 'take' on its firepower. Alternatively rate it against a comparable weapon type.

..a few ideas.

Rolf

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by john de terre neuve »

It is a bit of a tough one.

I like CoC because it is nice and simple. Mag fed LMG=6xD6, Belt fed LMG=8xD6, Tripod mount MMG and HMG=10xD6.

Although the rpm between different MG is quite variable and it is of interest the same MG has a different rate of fire depending if it is on a bipod or tripod. Clearly it is not just rpm that was factored into the game. Reliability, jamming, overheating, etc. all factored in.

So here we have a mounted Quad MG which is water cooled in the Winter War. The highest rpm I can find for a single barreled WWII MG is 1200, so maybe 15D6 would be correct but each time it is fired a D6 is thrown, with a score of 1 the gun fails and is out of the turn or game (which one?).

I am trying to keep with the spirit of the rules in respect to their simplicity.

John

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Re: Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by sid »

RPM is strictly theoretical and will never be achieved because of the need to change belts, change barrel, deal with stoppages, adjusting for target etc. So for example with the eponymous German MG42, it has a very high cyclic ROF but it is very similar to the modern GPMG where its rapid fire rate wold be 200 rounds/minute on a tripod mount or 100 rounds/minute for normal rate. Firing with bursts of approximately 20 rounds. On a bipod it would be 20 rounds a minute rapid with bursts of 3 -5 rounds (often saying the word banana to get that 3-5!).

Quad mounted is an interesting question, as a guide the Italian 1940 list raises the vehicle twin MG from 6 dice to 8 dice, so assuming each barrel is only granted +2 dice(which makes sense as all the rounds land in the same area - quad guns are anti air normally, so extra rounds hurt the aircraft more whereas an extra 2 or 3 rounds in a dead man is still a dead man not two dead men) then a quad is 12 dice, still not shabby.

aphillathehun
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Re: Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by aphillathehun »

sid wrote:RPM is strictly theoretical and will never be achieved because of the need to change belts, change barrel, deal with stoppages, adjusting for target etc. So for example with the eponymous German MG42, it has a very high cyclic ROF but it is very similar to the modern GPMG where its rapid fire rate wold be 200 rounds/minute on a tripod mount or 100 rounds/minute for normal rate. Firing with bursts of approximately 20 rounds. On a bipod it would be 20 rounds a minute rapid with bursts of 3 -5 rounds (often saying the word banana to get that 3-5!).
True. True. I think I was looking at something recently about how much MG ammo was carried for the MG in a 251 (not the ones the pgs took with them when they dismounted) and I don't think it was enough to get through 2 minutes of fire at full advertised rate.

One other thought about this: part of the effect of that thing has to be the morale effect on the target of that much lead flying at them. In CoC you get both extra dead guys and shock though so maybe it doesn't make any difference? Or maybe you could keep it at 10 dice with double shock?

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Interesting info on jamming here
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/AAMG.htm

sid
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Re: Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by sid »

Interestingly enough, although the old vivkers/maxim has a lower cyclic ROF than the MG42 type weapon, in reality because of feed issues, the need to change barrels and the need to keep a lower rate of fire its actual ROF is lower than the Vickers/Maxim. So for tracking a flying aircraft by trying to walk tracer onto it, the Vickers/Maxim is better. As long as water is kept topped up and you feed oil into the working parts the beast will fire forever. With an MG20, the fire cannot be maintained, if you keep your finger depressed the chances are you will jam before running through a single 200 round belt.

As an aside thats why the modern uber rates of fire weapons like the Vulcan minigun are all gatling designs, as the rotating barrels give each barrel a chance to cool down.

sid
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Re: Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by sid »

aphillathehun wrote:
sid wrote: One other thought about this: part of the effect of that thing has to be the morale effect on the target of that much lead flying at them. In CoC you get both extra dead guys and shock though so maybe it doesn't make any difference? Or maybe you could keep it at 10 dice with double shock?
I think you are right and this is the way forward. However maybe double shock is a bit much. There is the precedent with flamethrowers doubling shock but this might be a bit much just for a quad MG. Possibly adding D3 auto shock points. Makes it effective at keeping heads down regardless of range or target type without being too effective.

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Re: Any thoughts on the firepower of a Quad-Maxim MG

Post by Richard »

I tend to add 2d6 for a twin MG, so maybe a further 2d6 for the next two barrels would work, so 14d6 in total.

Rich

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