Firing Rifle Grenades

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AFPU
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Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by AFPU »

Hi

I am busy building up a Volkgrenadier platoon where the suggested ORBAT has a HQ squad comprising a Senior Leader (deployed/activated on a 4) and a team of 3 riflemen with grenade launchers (deployed/activated on a 1).

To get the rifle team to fire their grenades requires either a Junior or Senior Leader to use one of their Command Initiatives for each riflemen to fire a rifle grenade. For the purpose of this topic let's assume they are within the command range of a Senior Leader (i.e. 9 inches), who is going to get all three riflemen to fire grenades.

My question is, does the target unit need to be in line of sight of the riflemen firing the grenades, or of the Senior Leader commanding them to do so or of any friendly unit?

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7dot62mm
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Re: Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by 7dot62mm »

I play so that the rifle grenadier must see the target. Rifle grenades are pretty powerful anyways, especially when formed into a team.

For what it's worth, I included some optional rifle grenade rules in my Winter War campaign
http://eeronsivut.net/pelit/chainofcomm ... S_1-2_v2_2. They're in the Optional Rules file.

Of course the Germans had various types of rifle grenades by 1944. Here are some optional rules I wrote for our version of the Kursk 1.1 (K11) campaign:

18.8 RIFLE GRENADES

In a valiant effort to further wargamer awareness of the use of rifle grenades in WWII we've
included German rifle grenades in K11 even though the Lardies are desperately trying to ignore the
whole subject. There is no doubt that these weapons were used at Kursk, after all the Germans
produced some 19.4 million rifle grenades just in 1943!

There are two types of rifle grenade launchers in K11. Any regular rifleman may be converted into
a rifle grenadier by purchasing the Rifle Grenade Launcher support option. Additionally, a specialist
Rifle Grenadier Team can also be purhased, this is two men and one Granatbüchse 39 (GrB 39) , a
converted anti-tank rifle.

Rifle grenades may only be fired by a Rifle Grenadier Team or when an individual rifle man is
commanded by a Leader using a Command Initiative. An activated Leader who is attached to his
men or within command range of them may, therefore, use one Command Initiative to instruct
troops to get a Unit which is not Tactical or on Overwatch to fire a single rifle grenade [4.5.3, K11].
Rifle grenades are slow to load and thus a given grenadier is unable to fire a grenade on
consecutive German activations [K11]. This does not apply to the Rifle Grenadier Team who can
fire on every activation as long as the Team has two members and no Shock [K11]. Rifle grenades
are considered to be plentiful (a box of 30 grenades weighed 11 kg) but a grenadier will run out of
the type of grenade being used just then if he rolls two 1s on his to hit dice [K11].

A Pinned Unit may not use any of its rifle grenades [14.5]. A pinned Unit's rifle grenadier may still
use his rifle to shoot bullets at 50% reduction to its firing dice [K11].


18.8.1. G.Sprgr HE Frag grenade

The impact-detonated G.Sprgr HE Frag grenade has Firepower 2 [Table Four Master Arsenal
Table] and reduces cover by one level when calculating the effect of any hits [9.1.5].
The G.Sprgr HE Frag grenade can be fired in indirect manner 18-60" as Effective range [Table
Four Master Arsenal Table] and 61-79" as Long Range (2d6, as Effective but at -1 to Hit) and 80-
103" as Extreme Range (1d6, as Effective but at -1 to Hit) [K11]. All indirect fire must be done
within reasonable LoS of the firer [K11].

The G.Sprgr HE Frag grenade can also be shot as a direct fire munition at ranges of 0"-12" (0-15“
using the Granatbüchse 39) as Close Range and 13-24" as Effective Range.

G.Sprgr HE Frag grenades fired against open topped or softskin vehicles will be treated as a single
hand grenade. However, they may only engage a target which is in direct line of sight, rolling 2D6
and hitting on a result of 12. If a hit is achieved roll 3D6. Each 4, 5 or 6 counts as one net hit on the
vehicle damage table. Roll as normal on the relevant table in Section 12, Fire Against Vehicles)
[9.2.1].

When fired directly the grenade can be targeted at medium-sized apertures such as doorways or
windows but then only 1d6 is rolled To Hit and the target is considered Elite [K11]. Also small
apertures such as bunker firing apertures can be targeted within 6" and the target hit on a 6 [K11].
If a hit is scored the grenade causes a 3d6 firepower attack and target has no cover [K11].
The rifle grenade must be able to penetrate its target in order to cause damage (i.e. a grenade
hitting the top of a concrete bunker will cause no harm to its occupants) [K11].


18.8.2. Gewehr-Panzergranate 30 & 40 HEAT Rifle Grenades

The impact-detonated G.Panzergranate grenades have Firepower 2 but do not reduce cover by
one level when calculating the effect of any hits [K11].

The rifle grenade can be fired in indirect manner 18-60" as Effective range [Table Four Master
Arsenal Table] and 61-79" as Long Range (2d6, as Effective but at -1 to Hit) and 80-103" as
Extreme Range (1d6, as Effective but at -1 to Hit) [K11]. All indirect fire must be done within
reasonable LoS of the firer [K11].

The rifle grenade can also be shot as a direct fire munition at ranges of 0"-12" (0-15“ using the
Granatbüchse 39) as Close Range and 13-24" as Effective Range. Due to their slow muzzle
velocity rifle grenades targeted at vehicles always substract 1 from their roll to hit [K11].
HEAT rifle grenades can ne used target vehicles using indirect fire. However, they may only
engage a target which is in direct line of sight, rolling 2D6 and hitting on a result of 11 or 12 [K11]. A
12 does not signify hitting a weak spot [K11].

When fired directly the grenade can be targeted at medium-sized apertures such as doorways or
windows but then only 1d6 is rolled To Hit and the target is considered Elite [K11]. Also small
apertures such as bunker firing apertures can be targeted within 6" and the target hit on a 6 [K11].
If a hit is scored the grenade causes a 3d6 firepower attack and target has no cover [K11].
The rifle grenade must be able to penetrate its target in order to cause damage (i.e. a grenade
hitting the top of a concrete bunker will cause no harm to its occupants) [K11].

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Nope, they need to be in LOS like any other direct fire weapon. Same as VB launchers

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DougM
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Re: Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by DougM »

Truscott Trotter wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:23 pm
Nope, they need to be in LOS like any other direct fire weapon. Same as VB launchers
Which I found odd considering the small mortar rules. I can only assume they lacked the accuracy to pinpoint a target based on leader directions.
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AFPU
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Re: Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by AFPU »

Many thanks for clarifying that the riflemen need to have line of sight to engage the target with rifle grenades. This therefore might be challenging if the terrain is not that open and the minimum range is 18".

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by Truscott Trotter »

DougM wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:43 am
Truscott Trotter wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:23 pm
Nope, they need to be in LOS like any other direct fire weapon. Same as VB launchers
Which I found odd considering the small mortar rules. I can only assume they lacked the accuracy to pinpoint a target based on leader directions.
I think it more lack ot training and resources for doing this with rifle grenadiers moving with the sections, although I am slightly surprised the French VB section do not get this ability.

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DougM
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Re: Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by DougM »

I don't have rules to hand, but do the Japanese knee mortars?
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Knee Mortars count as mortars not rifle grenades.
FWIW the Japanese did have a range of rifle grenades as well.

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DougM
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Re: Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by DougM »

That's what I thought I remembered, so I wonder why a VB squad isn't treated the same as a knee mortar for direct/indirect fire.
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Firing Rifle Grenades

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Because a Knee mortar is a purpose built 50mm Grenade discharger, and a VB is a rifle grenade?

Srsly dunno - I would think the VB team rather than the individuals should get that rule but only thing I read on that team was it was ad-hoc and they were just as often split up - so again doctrine rather than equipment differences

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