Why Doesn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

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JOHN BOND 001
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Why Doesn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by JOHN BOND 001 »

Since Anti tank guns and artillery guns have Junior leaders present , why is it that MMG do not.
My question comes about as I have noticed CoC gamers bypassing the select a MMG as a support option.
Would the inclusion of a Junior Leader with a MMG make it more appealing? and should it included in the support list?
;)
Last edited by JOHN BOND 001 on Sun May 17, 2020 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Levi the Ox
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Re: Why shouldn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by Levi the Ox »

No idea why they don't have a JL. I think their unpopularity is a combiniation of the lack thereof compared to pretty much every other combat unit, and the fact that they don't actually offer any new capability the core platoon itself doesn't already have. Which is a shame 'cause they're pretty much *the* iconic support weapon.

Different lists rate them at 3 or 4 support points, one of the few support options to fluctuate like this. At 4 they compete directly with light infantry guns and sometimes even additional squads, both of which are noticeably better. At 3 the comparisons are a little more reasonable, but the lack of activation flexibility is still noticeable.

In either case though, and even if they had a Junior Leader, they still only bring small arms firepower dice, and a moderate amount at that. At some point I'm thinking of doing some experiments with the Sustained Fire rule that they have in Great War CoC from one of the Specials, so that they have a specialized role to fulfill.

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7dot62mm
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Re: Why shouldn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by 7dot62mm »

In my gaming I always give MMGs a Junior Leader. And I have used special MMG rules to make them the battlefield-dominating weapons they realy were.

Novista
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Re: Why shouldn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by Novista »

Should the title be “Why doesn’t an MMG have it’s own junior leader?”.

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JOHN BOND 001
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Re: Why Doesn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by JOHN BOND 001 »

Novista , Corrected ;)

Len Tracey
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Re: Why Doesn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by Len Tracey »

Agree that without a JL they are more difficult to use unless you park an SL nearby. I use them a fair bit and always keep an SL in range to maintain the fire base. I also think that without a JL they should be a level 3 choice rather than level 4.

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remgain
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Re: Why shouldn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by remgain »

7dot62mm wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:28 am
In my gaming I always give MMGs a Junior Leader. And I have used special MMG rules to make them the battlefield-dominating weapons they realy were.
Interested in your homebrew rules...

Thank you!
Marco
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

George Bernard Shaw

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7dot62mm
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Re: Why shouldn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by 7dot62mm »

remgain wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:17 pm
7dot62mm wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:28 am
In my gaming I always give MMGs a Junior Leader. And I have used special MMG rules to make them the battlefield-dominating weapons they realy were.
Interested in your homebrew rules...
Look here: http://www.saunalahti.fi/~ejuhola/7.62/ ... index.html in the Optional Rules file, section R3

My current feeling is that the Sustained Fire overwatch fire in the Beaten Zone should be half the firepower of the MMG (currently full firepower).

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JOHN BOND 001
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Re: Why Doesn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by JOHN BOND 001 »

From Richard:
"There is indeed a reason. Firstly, anti-tank guns historically would be commanded by a relatively senior NCO; MMG teams would not. But more importantly it is done as a design choice to limit the MMGs ability to utterly dominate the table. As we know, MMGs were prone to stoppages. I didn’t want to model that into the rules in the traditional sense, but having them activate on a natural 1 means they are not going to always get to fire on their own.

This then presents the player with the option of attaching a senior leader, something that again mirrors historical usage, as a base of fire would often be controlled in this manner. I think this is entirely correct.

I’m interested to hear that people aren’t selecting the MMG. I can’t say that I’ve found that myself. The MMG is not a universal panacea. It is less mobile, precisely because it needs a 1 to activate. But it is very strong in a fixed position for a defender. It also allows an attacker to deploy a lot of firepower on a narrow schwerpunkt.

Personally I think the current lack of junior leader gives the correct historical balance fir this weapon."

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remgain
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Re: Why shouldn't a MMG have its own Junior Leader ?

Post by remgain »

7dot62mm wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 8:17 pm
remgain wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:17 pm
7dot62mm wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:28 am
In my gaming I always give MMGs a Junior Leader. And I have used special MMG rules to make them the battlefield-dominating weapons they realy were.
Interested in your homebrew rules...
Look here: http://www.saunalahti.fi/~ejuhola/7.62/ ... index.html in the Optional Rules file, section R3

My current feeling is that the Sustained Fire overwatch fire in the Beaten Zone should be half the firepower of the MMG (currently full firepower).
Thank you!
Marco
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

George Bernard Shaw

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