Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

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Seret
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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by Seret »

There's a document out there called the CoCulator that you can use to figure out the force rating for any historical or non-historical force.

On top of that you've got the Consolidated Arsenal which covers pretty much any vehicle you might want.

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Seret
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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by Seret »

So between those two you should be able to take any existing list and turn it into a force rating and support list options for them. There are however a lot of lists out there for all sorts of forces. As well as the stand-alone ones I've linked to above, you've also got all the platoons from the official Pint Sized Campaigns and a load more in the unofficial PSCs.

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Seret
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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by Seret »

There are a lot of other lists drafted by fans around too, for example I've got a few on my blog, check the files section at the TFL mailing list

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Seret
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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by Seret »

and the CoC Facebook group.

In other words: you should have no problem getting whatever forces your friends fancy onto the table. Bear in mind though that CoC generally doesn't support some of the weird non-historical stuff you'll get in BA. It sticks to historical options: you can only use what the real troops had. There's nothing to stop you from putting whatever you like on table in your own games, but all the resources you'll find for CoC will assume you only want the historically-accurate options.

Levi the Ox
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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by Levi the Ox »

Ooh boy, this is a fun one!

Seret's posted some great resources already: between the CoCulator, the Consolidated Arsenal, and I'll add the Big Chain of Command rules (free from here: https://toofatlardies.co.uk/blog/?p=3013) you can put together pretty much any force.

So to help you out with some specifics, what about the listbuilding in Bolt Action is it that they best like? Is it the types of forces they get to use? Is it the pre-battle metagame of trying to outwit your opponent? Is it the puzzle of trying to build the most "optimum" list? Is it the sheer amount of customization available?

The mechanics of Chain of Command are centered around the operation of an infantry platoon, and in most games that core platoon is going to represent 50-75% of a player's total force. "Support" units are just that, optional add-ons brought to get the job done for a specific mission on a specific table, which is why they're chosen after you've actually seen the terrain.

Not knowing much about Bolt Action's list-building, how much of the forces are standard infantry (platoon HQs, rifle/smg/lmg squads) versus units that would be categorized as "Support" in Chain of Command (tripod mgs, towed guns, vehicles of all kinds, specialist infantry different than the core of the force)?

A word on points costs: they are at best a rough approximation of a unit's potential value. In games where both forces are constructed blindly, specialist pieces like heavy armor and anti-tank weapons can easily skew a play experience, because their value in a game is entirely dependent on the terrain and presence or lack of similar specialist pieces in the opponent's force. Because Chain of Command ensures that at least half of both forces are infantry with comparable capabilities, and the remaining units are chosen after the table is set up, most of your force will always have something to do and the support assets you take (especially specialist ones) will be better suited for the game.

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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by Truscott Trotter »

FWIW my feedback from local BA players is "it the types of forces they get to use? Is it the pre-battle metagame of trying to outwit your opponent?"
they want that Big Cat or quad AA option every game - they have not played enough (or any) CoC to realise what a liability such options are in CoC! :lol:

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7dot62mm
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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by 7dot62mm »

Watching Tabletop CP play BA it seems to me that BA "armies" are generated using a pool of say 1200 points. The result is not a platoon but rather a hodge-podge "Kampfgruppe" of available units, thus a Soviet "army" might have several squads, a KV-2, a truck with DP LMG, an infantry gun, an 82mm mortar, and an incendiary bottle launcher, as the Tabletop CP game illustrates.

I don't see a problem in using BA points to generate CoC platoons and units. But because CoC is centered on a platoon which then has supporting units (this affects the number of command dice, and morale rolls etc.), I would suggest that at least three squads plus their HQ team be purchased to form a core platoon, and then the rest of the points can be used for whatever support units are desirable. One should however accept that two forces bought with an equal number of BA points might not be as nicely balanced in CoC as they are in BA. In CoC this is often not a major issue, but some BA players who prefer tournament games may be uncomfortable with the situation.

The platoon-centric focus of CoC may also be inconvenient to some BA players used to fielding, say, a squad each of Hitler Jugend, Fallschirmjägers, Waffen SS and Heer in their "army", and who as a consequence might not have a full platoon of any of single troop type.
Last edited by 7dot62mm on Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Vanth
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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by Vanth »

Ledfoot65 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:29 am
I have been trying to get my gaming group to move on from Bolt Action to CoC. They feel CoC is a better game but the list building options and variety of BA lists is an important aspect of the game for them and keeps them from adopting CoC. Has anyone tried playing CoC with Bolt Action lists and points? Are there any accommodations that need to be made to get this to work?
That is such a bad idea, if i ever saw one...
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Rich H
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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by Rich H »

Bear in mind that it would be easy to break CofC by moving away from "Platoon plus" to take whatever you like as the units are no balanced in the same way.

For example a MMG is list 3-4 in CofC but only 50 points in BA. An MMG in CofC is a vital and devastating weapon in Bolt Action it's rarely taken as it's poor value. HEavy tanks are list 10+ so very very rarely seen, yet they are 300+ points in BA.

List building and optimisation is integral to BA but largely irrelevant in CofC

George2591
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Re: Using Bolt Action lists and points to build CoC forces?

Post by George2591 »

If you play BA at 500 to 750 points 50 for an MMG is a hefty spend once you get your core units, same in CoC if you only have a small number of support points. A Tiger I is 395 points in BA so like CoC you will not see many if at all in an average game. If you play a one off at home and up the support points for your CoC game you can bring just as much heavy stuff as BA. And of course list building is not irrelevant in CoC because it works from lists. The two games are simply different, BA of course on the tournament scene plays well to players who simply want to win and care not how they do it. As to the original post choose your BA forces then simply play with CoC rules.

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