Green Troops and 4 Command Dice - A quick and easy solution to balance 6's rolled with 4, 5 or 6 command dice.

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GunnarL
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Re: Green Troops and 4 Command Dice - A quick and easy solution to balance 6's rolled with 4, 5 or 6 command dice.

Post by GunnarL »

Personally, I think adding two to three new ways to measure troop quality/motivation is just adding more granularity than needed in the game. You start to get bogged down in things that are often intangible, like "stickiness" and "level of training." The factors that determine how well a unit fights are often so nebulous that adding hard numbers for these things is not only unrealistic, but absurd. Look at the 8th Army in Europe. What was considered one of the most skilled and experienced units in the British Army had lost their motivation as a whole. That said, I'm sure that many of the platoon level engagements differed wildly between one unit and the next. A lot of these things come down to command and experience (Command Dice), or Will (Force Morale).

This is where context really matters, rather than statistics. CoC works best when played in context. If you want to account for combat fatigue on a unit, like the 8th Army in Italy, then do so in a campaign setting were their force morale is automatically reduced by two during the campaign or something like that.

If you want to add thematic detail, you should add it within the context of the game, not the rules. The rules as is represent the base level, most average forces of each type, not 1st platoon, E Co. at Foy. That is where you would do some research, examine the context of the battle, and adjust the generic Airborne list to reflect reality as close as possible. In this example, I would leave them as elites, but maybe either reduce their force morale or reduce their command dice to four until a certain number of turns during the game, when Spiers replaces Norman.

If you are playing a one off game, I'd recommend just sticking to the standard lists. If you really want to add more detail to fit the context of a specific battle, unit, etc., I'd recommend using the current rules and adjusting values to fit, rather than adding new rules. Often when you bolt on new rules to a balanced system, it throws the whole thing out of whack.

If you look at the system as is, Force Morale accounts for willingness to fight, Command Dice reflect the Initiative of the troops, and troop quality reflects both training and experience. I don't see what else needs to be accounted for? If you want these values more set in stone, which does not reflect reality in the slightest, then I don't know how to help. You have to remember, even the best soldiers in the world run away while less elite troops will stick it out sometimes.

While it may feel like you have to ascribe a tangible value to it, that's not how reality works. You elite panzer grenadiers may just have a bad day where they fight uncharacteristically poorly for no discernible reason, but that's how war is. Maybe they haven't slept for for three days, maybe they've been on the line for months, maybe it's just that they ran out of ass wipe.


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Another_Gamer
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Re: Green Troops and 4 Command Dice - A quick and easy solution to balance 6's rolled with 4, 5 or 6 command dice.

Post by Another_Gamer »

Does Richard Clarke check these forums from time to time? I ask because we were hoping to hear from the designer himself about what his thoughts are on using the "Green Troops and Four Command Dice" rule in conjunction with the "Elite Troops and the Sixth Command Dice" rule.

From our testing, the "Green Troops and Four Command Dice" rule truly does balance the Phase Sequence Rolls (see 6.1 on page 25), but we might have missed something (regarding game design) and we were hoping to get some feedback from the game designer.

Morgan
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Re: Green Troops and 4 Command Dice - A quick and easy solution to balance 6's rolled with 4, 5 or 6 command dice.

Post by Morgan »

Rich only seems to check here very occasionally. I would say, though, that if you've tried it and it works for you ... job done! Others have also done the same in the past, I believe, to good effect. I'll certainly be doing the same if I ever field Green or Elite troops.
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rim66
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Re: Green Troops and 4 Command Dice - A quick and easy solution to balance 6's rolled with 4, 5 or 6 command dice.

Post by rim66 »

You're right that Rich is here less often than he would like, but I do check on his behalf at least once a day and alert him to issues, so just shout if there is anything major you need help with and I will pass it on. There's so much traffic, it is sometimes hard to spot the issues so a gentle prod can often help!!

Kind regards,

Richard aka Monty Lardo

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Iztvan
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Re: Green Troops and 4 Command Dice - A quick and easy solution to balance 6's rolled with 4, 5 or 6 command dice.

Post by Iztvan »

I guess Rich will look into these kind of questions when he starts looking into doing campaign books where handling green troops is relevant. I have full confidence! :-)
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Another_Gamer
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Re: Green Troops and 4 Command Dice - A quick and easy solution to balance 6's rolled with 4, 5 or 6 command dice.

Post by Another_Gamer »

rim66 wrote: You're right that Rich is here less often than he would like, but I do check on his behalf at least once a day and alert him to issues, so just shout if there is anything major you need help with and I will pass it on. There's so much traffic, it is sometimes hard to spot the issues so a gentle prod can often help!!
Thanks rim66. Nothing to really "shout" out about. We were only wondering if we were on the right path. Maybe there was something within the game's design we overlooked in regards to Phase Sequence Rolls (6.1, page 25), or some other game mechanic.

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Another_Gamer
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Re: Green Troops and 4 Command Dice - A quick and easy solution to balance 6's rolled with 4, 5 or 6 command dice.

Post by Another_Gamer »

I finally picked up the Blitzkrieg 1940 book. Something to make a note of is the use of a red die as outlined on page 15.

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