1944 Free French Forces

Moderators: Vis Bellica, Laffe

Greuthungi
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:19 am
Location: Holland
Contact:

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by Greuthungi »

praraka wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:12 pm Look for "Chain of Command - France".
I have the same issue, can't find the group on Facebook. Would you be able to post a link to the documents? I am very interested in the Goumiers.

Merci,
Eltjo
Use the Consolidated Arsenal! It's here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... /htmlview#
User avatar
7dot62mm
Posts: 633
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:17 am

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by 7dot62mm »

Greuthungi wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:01 am
praraka wrote: Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:12 pm Look for "Chain of Command - France".
I have the same issue, can't find the group on Facebook. Would you be able to post a link to the documents? I am very interested in the Goumiers.

Merci,
Eltjo
Same problem still with me. This group is called Chain of Command -France https://www.facebook.com/groups/2385359141531848 but I cannot find any files relating to French WWII OB there. Lots of nice Francophone people though.
lebedo
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: London, Ontario

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by lebedo »

Hi there. Sorry for the delay. The lists are posted under my name. Look at the posts written by Olivier Descours and you'll find the lists. They need playtesting and some adjustments. Please feel free to comment. The Goumiers are a guess as I couldn't find any information on them. Basically they were light infantry with a lot of smgs but I couldn't find any pic showing the full smgs allotment.
lebedo
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: London, Ontario

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by lebedo »

So searching for the organisation of the Zouaves platoon, I found a testimony of a civilian during the battle of Anse, september 1944. The platoon leader was with the 60mm mortar. Not with the voltigeurs squad as I thought.
lebedo
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: London, Ontario

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by lebedo »

Hi there,
So, after reading reports from the French 1st army, written just after the war and based on aar's from officers and nco's, I came with the following in game terms.
1) French army used the 1939 doctrine. They were not trained by the americans except for new weapons. It's not before the Indochina war that the French changed their doctrine. The only thing they adapt from the 1939 doctrine is that the voltigeur was the main element of the groupe. Victory was possible only by the mean of speed that lead to close combat. Fusiliers, the fire element of the groupe was only here to support the movement of the manoeuver element aka the voltigeurs. So, 75 of 100 platoon leaders interrogated after war recognised that they frequently adapted their platoon to form a manoeuver element with 2 voltigeurs groups under the command of the platoon leader and 1 support element with all the fusiliers under the command of the platoon leader assistant. That was true for the Tirailleurs and the goumiers.
2) The armored infantry lacked the manpower to adapt the platoon as the infantry did. They had 1 manoeuver element, the voltigeur group, and 2 support elements, the mitrailleurs -voltigeurs groups. The antitank group with the 57mm atg was too slow to be part of the platoon in attack and was frequently laid back under the command of his squad leader. But as 3 voltigeurs-ravitailleurs were part of it and that they were primarily voltigeurs, these guys were certainly detached from the AT group to reinforce the other elements. No evidence of this, just à guess.The 60mm mortar was under direct command of the platoon leader and was intensively used by him in direct support of the manoeuver element. Platoon leader assistant was in charge of the mitrailleurs voltigeurs groups.
3) Revenge was the main difference with the 1939 army, which lead to the voltigeurs doctrine and the emphasis on the speed rather than the fire. But it disappeared when french entered Germany as the national soil was freed. Whitening of colonial divisions by the inclusion of FFI replacing veterans had an impact on the fighting efficiency of the army. It happened only in tirailleurs divisions.
4) I found no evidence of troops being more agressive because they were black or north african. The only really feared by the germans were the goumiers. But it had a booster effect on their morale as they did not want to surrender to them. Goumiers were fast and aggressive mainly because they did not carry the same combat weight as the tirailleurs. They also did not wear the us boots that were painful for the tirailleurs.
5) french small arms were not the same as in the us divisions, except for the paratroopers and the french 2nd armored division infantry who used Garand. Other troops had b/a rifles. In 1943, platoon leaders and their assistant used smg while they had carbines in 1944. Goumiers were rearmed with smg only in 1944.
6) platoon command group of the tirailleurs had 2 differences with their us counterpart. There was an forward observer to help the platoon leader and 1 or 2 gradés à disposition who were mainly here to replace squad leaders who were killed. But they also acted as squad leaders or helped to deploy the platoon by staying backward, in a position named "serre file".
Now I need to think to national characteristic based on this.
Any thoughts welcome.
lebedo
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: London, Ontario

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by lebedo »

Si I came with the following national characteristic:
1) Revenge ( all french troops): when determining the force moral, add+2 to the dice results.
2) gradé à disposition ( infantry only ): he is a JL with a smg or a carbine in the platoon hq.
3) observer ( infantry only): french platoon starts the game with 1d6 command points already acquired.
4) 60mm mortar (armored infantry only): if the 60mm mortar and the voltigeurs squads are in command range of the platoon leader, and he spends 3CI, and the voltigeurs are moving to make a close combat, then the firepower of the mortar is added when counting the dices for c/c and the bonus dices of the defender for cover are reduced by one level. So light cover produces no bonus and heavy produces 1d6 for every 3 already acquired.
Peter
Posts: 1604
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:41 pm

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by Peter »

4) seems extremely powerful.
lebedo
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: London, Ontario

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by lebedo »

I haven't tested it yet. These are ideas for playtesting. But it doesn't seems more powerful than the maschinegewehr rule, does it? I forgot to say that you need to hit your ennemy to make 4) works.
User avatar
Capt Fortier
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:49 am
Location: Canberra, Australia
Contact:

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by Capt Fortier »

I think adding in mortar fire to close combat seems somewhat risky. Its not like "Handgrenaten!" where the men going in are the same ones throwing the grenades. Isn't there sufficient scope in the rules as they are to reflect the Free French armoured infantry practice, by simply having the platoon leader order the mortar to fire, test and apply any hits to the defenders, and then order the squad(s) to move into close combat? Can't really see the justification for any bonus here.
Capt Fortier

“Frapper l'ennemi, c'est bien. Frapper l'imagination, c'est mieux.” - Jean de Lattre de Tassigny
lebedo
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:29 pm
Location: London, Ontario

Re: 1944 Free French Forces

Post by lebedo »

Thanks guys for your thoughts.
I'm going to dig deeper...
Post Reply