1942 armored rifle co: 178 men, 17 HT.
1944 compagnie de fusiliers-voltigeurs: 178 men, 17 HT.
1942 us armored rifle platoon: 49 men, 5HT, 1 ATG, 1 60mm mortar, 2 lmg's with ground support.
1944 section de fusiliers-voltigeurs: 48 men, 5 HT, 1 ATG, 1 60mm mortar, 2 lmg's with ground support.
also the pics Emilio posted in the thread about where the cal50 was show an HT with ATG but without the 50 and an HT with the 50. On this second pic we can see a man carrying an smg. In french platoons, only the voltigeurs and the ATG squad had this weapon and the us way was to keep this weapon for the HT driver, no? So is it a voltigeurs squad with the platoon's assistant leader?
1944 Free French Forces
Moderators: Vis Bellica, Laffe
Re: 1944 Free French Forces
I'm completely ignorant of the composition of Free French forces, but I'm fascinated by this discussion! Keep it up!
Re: 1944 Free French Forces
So let's continue with ATG squad. In the 1942 us TOE, that's where the platoon leader was, making the squad 12 men strong, including the platoon ldr and his sergeant. But in reality, the squad was 10 men strong:
1 SL, 2 gunners, 5 riflemen and 1 basic.
The 1944 french ATG squad was also 10 men strong:
1 SL, 2 gunners, 2 ammo carriers, 3 voltigeurs, 1 driver and 1 driver's assistant.
Again, the difference was in the armament:
4 carbines, 1 smg and 7 rifles for the americans while the french had 1 pistol, 1 smg, 7 bolt-action rifles and 1 bazooka.
The us had, by that time, 2 "true" rifle squads, each 11 men strong. They were the "shock" troops of the platoon. Each squad came with:
1 SL, 1 ASL, 1 driver, 1 basic and 7 riflemen.
In 1944, the french version was lighter, and they only had 1 of these squads, with:
1 SL, 1 ASL, 1 driver and 6 riflemen ( voltigeurs).
The us were armed with 1 smg and 10 rifles while the french were armed with 4 smg's, 1 bazooka and 5 bolt-action rifles.
The last us squad was the lmg one that was 8 men strong:
1 SL, 1 ASL, 1 driver, 1 basic 2 gunners and 2 ammo carriers.
The french version was stronger with 10 men in each of these 2 squads:
1 SL, 1 ASL, 1 driver, 1 driver's assistant, 2 gunners and 4 ammo carriers (pourvoyeurs).
Again, the armament differs: 4 carbines, 2 lmg's, 1 smg, 2 pistols and 1 rifle for the us.
But 2 pistols, 2 lmg's, 1 bazooka and 8 bolt-action rifles for the french.
I think that the main reason why the french didn't adapt to the 1943 organisation was the lack of french speaking manpower( by then, each us armored rifle squad was 12 strong). French used to have only french speaking soldiers in the technical arms, like tanks, armored infantry, artillery,etc. The 2nd armored division even sent back its Senegalese soldiers pretending they were not qualified to be in the armored division!!!
So playing the french as an american armored platoon isn't right, even if they're close .
First, the platoon is different;
Second, the support list is different; for example, French had no M18, M24, M26, M3 Grant, M36 or 76mm ATG.
Third, each armored rifle regiment had its own personnality: the Zouaves ( 1st arm div) were from the Armée d'Afrique; the RMT ( 2nd arm div) were colonial troops and the RMLE ( 5th arm div) were Foreign Legion.
Here is a list:
1 Platoon HQ: 1 Lt, SL, smg or pistol
1 Pltn sgt, SL, smg.
1 Voltigeurs squad: 1 JL, smg
half-squad 1: 3 voltigeurs, smg
half-squad 2: 4 voltigeurs, b/a rifle
option: 2 voltigeurs can be removed to form a bazooka team;
2 Mitrailleurs-voltigeurs squads, each: 1 JL, b/a rifle
LMG, belt-fed,tripod,crew 2
5 riflemen, b/a rifle
option: 2 riflemen can be removed to form a bazooka team;
1 mortar squad: 1 JL, b/a rifle
60mm mortar, crew 2
2 riflemen, b/a
While moving with the platoon, the ATG squad was probably kept in reserve to protect the vehicles, so it will appear on the support list, but with the following difference:
57mm ATG, JL (b/a), crew 4, 1 voltigeur (smg), 2 voltigeurs (b/a rifle).
Support list: it's the American one, with some light modifications:
Lists 1, 2, 3 are the sames.
List 4: French made an extensive use of the M10 GMC as a mobile artillery. So maybe add a FO with a 4 gun of 76mm.
List 5: the Greyhound is only for armored forces. The regular infantry would instead have the Scout-car. No M24 Chaffee. The 50. cal should not appear in the armored infantry list.
List 6: paratroopers are only available during winter 1944. No M3 Grant, No 76mm ATG.
List 7: no M18 GMC.
List 8: no M36 GMC.
List 10: nothing!!!
See ya!!!
1 SL, 2 gunners, 5 riflemen and 1 basic.
The 1944 french ATG squad was also 10 men strong:
1 SL, 2 gunners, 2 ammo carriers, 3 voltigeurs, 1 driver and 1 driver's assistant.
Again, the difference was in the armament:
4 carbines, 1 smg and 7 rifles for the americans while the french had 1 pistol, 1 smg, 7 bolt-action rifles and 1 bazooka.
The us had, by that time, 2 "true" rifle squads, each 11 men strong. They were the "shock" troops of the platoon. Each squad came with:
1 SL, 1 ASL, 1 driver, 1 basic and 7 riflemen.
In 1944, the french version was lighter, and they only had 1 of these squads, with:
1 SL, 1 ASL, 1 driver and 6 riflemen ( voltigeurs).
The us were armed with 1 smg and 10 rifles while the french were armed with 4 smg's, 1 bazooka and 5 bolt-action rifles.
The last us squad was the lmg one that was 8 men strong:
1 SL, 1 ASL, 1 driver, 1 basic 2 gunners and 2 ammo carriers.
The french version was stronger with 10 men in each of these 2 squads:
1 SL, 1 ASL, 1 driver, 1 driver's assistant, 2 gunners and 4 ammo carriers (pourvoyeurs).
Again, the armament differs: 4 carbines, 2 lmg's, 1 smg, 2 pistols and 1 rifle for the us.
But 2 pistols, 2 lmg's, 1 bazooka and 8 bolt-action rifles for the french.
I think that the main reason why the french didn't adapt to the 1943 organisation was the lack of french speaking manpower( by then, each us armored rifle squad was 12 strong). French used to have only french speaking soldiers in the technical arms, like tanks, armored infantry, artillery,etc. The 2nd armored division even sent back its Senegalese soldiers pretending they were not qualified to be in the armored division!!!
So playing the french as an american armored platoon isn't right, even if they're close .
First, the platoon is different;
Second, the support list is different; for example, French had no M18, M24, M26, M3 Grant, M36 or 76mm ATG.
Third, each armored rifle regiment had its own personnality: the Zouaves ( 1st arm div) were from the Armée d'Afrique; the RMT ( 2nd arm div) were colonial troops and the RMLE ( 5th arm div) were Foreign Legion.
Here is a list:
1 Platoon HQ: 1 Lt, SL, smg or pistol
1 Pltn sgt, SL, smg.
1 Voltigeurs squad: 1 JL, smg
half-squad 1: 3 voltigeurs, smg
half-squad 2: 4 voltigeurs, b/a rifle
option: 2 voltigeurs can be removed to form a bazooka team;
2 Mitrailleurs-voltigeurs squads, each: 1 JL, b/a rifle
LMG, belt-fed,tripod,crew 2
5 riflemen, b/a rifle
option: 2 riflemen can be removed to form a bazooka team;
1 mortar squad: 1 JL, b/a rifle
60mm mortar, crew 2
2 riflemen, b/a
While moving with the platoon, the ATG squad was probably kept in reserve to protect the vehicles, so it will appear on the support list, but with the following difference:
57mm ATG, JL (b/a), crew 4, 1 voltigeur (smg), 2 voltigeurs (b/a rifle).
Support list: it's the American one, with some light modifications:
Lists 1, 2, 3 are the sames.
List 4: French made an extensive use of the M10 GMC as a mobile artillery. So maybe add a FO with a 4 gun of 76mm.
List 5: the Greyhound is only for armored forces. The regular infantry would instead have the Scout-car. No M24 Chaffee. The 50. cal should not appear in the armored infantry list.
List 6: paratroopers are only available during winter 1944. No M3 Grant, No 76mm ATG.
List 7: no M18 GMC.
List 8: no M36 GMC.
List 10: nothing!!!
See ya!!!
Re: 1944 Free French Forces
So I finally shared my files on the Coc-France Facebook page. Here is what you will find:
- infantry
- armored infantry
- mountain recon platoon
- Goumiers
- operational group
- FSSF
- FFO
- Premier Régiment de France
- Garde
- GMR
- Milice
- FFI
- Commandos
I still need to write lists for:
- recon platoon
- Brandenburg
- Freiwillingen
- security platoon
I also started researches on the battle of Marseille. The battle lasted for a week, and while not Stalingrad, it wasn't a quiet walk. Germans, while qualified as second rate troops, fought as hard as they could, making numerous counter-attacks against the French.
- infantry
- armored infantry
- mountain recon platoon
- Goumiers
- operational group
- FSSF
- FFO
- Premier Régiment de France
- Garde
- GMR
- Milice
- FFI
- Commandos
I still need to write lists for:
- recon platoon
- Brandenburg
- Freiwillingen
- security platoon
I also started researches on the battle of Marseille. The battle lasted for a week, and while not Stalingrad, it wasn't a quiet walk. Germans, while qualified as second rate troops, fought as hard as they could, making numerous counter-attacks against the French.
Re: 1944 Free French Forces
One needs to remember that these lists need to be playtested and amended .
Re: 1944 Free French Forces
Wow, that's a lot of lists. Many thanks!
Re: 1944 Free French Forces
You're welcome. Thanks.
Re: 1944 Free French Forces
Is there a link to the "Coc-France" FB page? Trying to search I get "Clash of Clans France", "COC France Place · Automotive Parts Store", "Tournoi France Nord COC" and "Comité Oréel Courbes" ... but nothing that looks like wargaming...
Re: 1944 Free French Forces
Yes, sorry. Thanks José.