Close Combat question

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JOHN BOND 001
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Close Combat question

Post by JOHN BOND 001 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:30 pm

A Junior Leader activates his Section to Move and fire at ½ effect, in doing so it brings the Section within 4” of a enemy Section.

1. Would you resolve the firing first before engaging in Close Combat?
2. When calculating on the Close Combat table would the defending Section count as being in Light cover as it had adopted a Tactical stance in Open terrain?

Thanks in advance
Cheers John

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oozeboss
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Re: Close Combat question

Post by oozeboss » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:21 am

1. No. The movement is done before the firing, so too bad, welcome to the warm intimate world of close combat.

2. No. Hugging the ground has its limitations when somebody is standing over you jabbing down with their bayonet. So just as units in a Tactical stance cannot fire, logic would dictate that if they could choose to keep hugging the ground to save themselves & opt not to fight, they'd lose the combat by default. (At which point we'll leave this line of thought as it's just getting sillier & sillier.)
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Close Combat question

Post by Truscott Trotter » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:14 am

I would disagree with 1 as per p.17
Move and fire (both at reduced effect) in
whichever order the player wishes

But unless you is Yanks or Soviet Scouts you only get to fire and move 1 D6 so that means you gonna be real close to start with - pretty rare IMHO
but agree with 2.
p.59 defending light cover
p.10 Light cover is considered to be minimal cover, which often makes the target harder to see but does not offer
much physical protection. This could be hedges, standing crops, low garden walls, small shell holes, wooden buildings or similar.

I would say just being tactical in the open wouldn't count

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Seret
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Re: Close Combat question

Post by Seret » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:17 am

Agreed, you can shoot then move 1d6, so you would resolve the shooting then any subsequent close combat. But like TT says, it's unlikely to come up much. When you're committing to engaging in close combat you'll generally want to be sure you go in, so it would only come up if you were already pretty close, like 6" or so.

As for tactical in the open, you could go either way on this IMO. Up to you and your opponent.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Close Combat question

Post by Truscott Trotter » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:32 am

When I play hide n seek with my Westie dog she takes great delight in hiding behind plants only 1-2" wide.
I pretend I cannot see her and shout "where has that puppy dog gone?" - this causes much tail wagging
However, I would not try this with a grenadier carrying a rifle with a bayonet attached! :roll: :lol:

BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: Close Combat question

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:55 am

In fairness, they probably eat less than a Westie.

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Arlequín
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Re: Close Combat question

Post by Arlequín » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:14 am

I think there's an assumption that close combat automatically means hand to hand combat, something not helped by the figures almost being able to touch each other.

Tabletop 4" is 36' - which is not far off the 45' often taken as the outside distance where 'close assault' or 'close quarter battle' occurs. Nominally 45' is also the limit of grenade throwing range on average.

So while shooting then moving to within 4" to initiate CC is valid, moving to within 4", shooting and then doing the CC is not; CQ shooting is abstracted into the whole process.

I've always seen 'Tactical' as an attempt at concealment when there is no actual cover. It isn't automatically hugging the dirt, but would translate to that most of the time. As an example, standing in the shadow cast by a building, but in front of its wall would be 'tactical' too.

If TT's puppy had taken time to attach camouflage to itself and to break up the outline of its helmet, it might actually gain a split second where TT actually couldn't identify Tactical Puppy and that's how long it takes to get shot.

A man lying down is at a disadvantage against rifle and bayonet used by a guy stood over him, but at 36' it's still the sensible thing to do against someone shooting at you, or tossing a grenade your way.

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Re: Close Combat question

Post by Archdukek » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:12 pm

If the player declares that he wishes to fire first then move, then that's fine you would work out the effect of the fire first then move. However, if as in your example he is moving first or at best simultaneously and that movement takes him into Close Combat, then no he can't fire separately, the effect is factored into the Close Combat calculation. Moving and firing as they close with the defenders is precisely what Close Combat represents most of the time.

Going Tactical in the Open does not mean that you are actually in or defending light cover. Rather your troops are treated as such when being fired on from a distance. There is no such benefit when engaged in Close Combat.

John

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Close Combat question

Post by Truscott Trotter » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:43 pm

Besides if the defenders were tactical they shouldn't get any of the shooting dice in CC
Eg the additional dice for lmg/mmg or for the distance enemy charge.

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Re: Close Combat question

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:26 am

Arlequín wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:14 am

If TT's puppy had taken time to attach camouflage to itself and to break up the outline of its helmet, it might actually gain a split second where TT actually couldn't identify Tactical Puppy and that's how long it takes to get shot.

A man lying down is at a disadvantage against rifle and bayonet used by a guy stood over him, but at 36' it's still the sensible thing to do against someone shooting at you, or tossing a grenade your way.
Well actually she is quite good at camouflage but again I do not think it will help at CC distances!

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