BTW.
Light troops in the calculator indicate +3 on 10+ points, but +2 in up to 10 pts... should it be up to 9 and then 10+
or
should it be up to 10 and then +3 on 11+ .. Anyone knows ?
cheers
Francisco
The Sharpulator Arrives
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- Captain Reid
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Re: The Sharpulator Arrives
The bands are
0 and less
1-3
4-6
7-9
10-12
etc
so light infantry (skirmish troop type) would be +3 at 10-12 points
0 and less
1-3
4-6
7-9
10-12
etc
so light infantry (skirmish troop type) would be +3 at 10-12 points
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The Saindoux Campaign, French & Indian War blog
Cerro Manteca, Peninsular War blog.
The Saindoux Campaign, French & Indian War blog
Cerro Manteca, Peninsular War blog.
Re: The Sharpulator Arrives
Not seen anyone ask this before about "Prominent Leader", but I want to query classing it as a Neutral trait.
All positive traits provide a bonus to the unit, all negative ones incur a penalty.
"Hearth & Home" makes sense as a neutral trait as it could be a positive or a negative depending on the scenario being played.
"Prominent Leader" though doesn't actually have a positive side - in fact, it has TWO negative impacts which are possible. Both good rules and highly appropriate (Roll twice on FM table if leader attached is wounded/killed and also troop quality drops by 1 level if leader killed), but I wonder if this should be either a negative trait (there's nothing positive about it!) or even hold the dubious honour of being a Double Negative trait?
All positive traits provide a bonus to the unit, all negative ones incur a penalty.
"Hearth & Home" makes sense as a neutral trait as it could be a positive or a negative depending on the scenario being played.
"Prominent Leader" though doesn't actually have a positive side - in fact, it has TWO negative impacts which are possible. Both good rules and highly appropriate (Roll twice on FM table if leader attached is wounded/killed and also troop quality drops by 1 level if leader killed), but I wonder if this should be either a negative trait (there's nothing positive about it!) or even hold the dubious honour of being a Double Negative trait?
Re: The Sharpulator Arrives
I don't recall seeing an explanation. It may be classed as Neutral because it is a conditional trait which will only apply in certain narrow circumstances namely your Commander being killed or wounded. Treating it as a negative trait confers a "benefit" in terms of points cost for something which may not actually arise in the game.
To be honest I can't see it making much difference how you choose to rate it.
To be honest I can't see it making much difference how you choose to rate it.
- Captain Reid
- Posts: 970
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:49 am
- Location: Pengwern and Pebylls
- Contact:
Re: The Sharpulator Arrives
For my Saindoux Campaign, I've presumed it Negative and priced accordingly.
I did query as to whether it should be negative in my thread about the rulebook lists.
I did query as to whether it should be negative in my thread about the rulebook lists.
The climate crisis has already been solved. We already have all the facts and solutions. All we have to do is to wake up and change. - Greta Thunberg
The Saindoux Campaign, French & Indian War blog
Cerro Manteca, Peninsular War blog.
The Saindoux Campaign, French & Indian War blog
Cerro Manteca, Peninsular War blog.
Re: The Sharpulator Arrives
Would be ace if it could be made to work on google sheets as i and others may not have office...
Re: The Sharpulator Arrives
Just noticed there is no entry for Tribes with mellee weapons only - seems to assume muskets. I'm assuming 3 or 4 but any idea which?
Re: The Sharpulator Arrives
Trouble is there isn't a melee-only Tribes unit in the lists within the SP2 rulebook.
However, we are in luck! The melee-only Samurai in the Boshin War list (free download on the website) are rated 5 points. They have 4 positive characteristics, Step Out on 2 and always have formation, so get +8 variation, meaning +2 on top of their original value. So, that means that a Tribe group with only hand weapons starts out at 3 points.
In fact, the Boshin War lists mean that melee Clans and Wallahs can also be worked out, because you have Shinsengumi and Shogitai (Clan) and Ashigaru (Wallah) listed as well. Shinsengumi are worth 6 points with +9 variation (again +2), so the basic Clan is worth 4 points. The Ashigaru are worth 3 points with +1 variation (no change), so Wallahs are worth 3 without guns.
This presents an interesting problem, though. Compared to Tribes, Wallahs are 2 quality levels worse in Fisticuffs AND are only 6D6 to begin with compared to 8D6 for Tribes. That means that in a head-to-head fight a Tribe has twice the dice as a Wallah, but begins in theory with equal points value. Taking into account the necessities of command and control, perhaps Wallahs should be worth 2 rather than 3 without firearms.
As an extra thought, going back to the Boshin War list, the Samurai get Stubborn, Aggressive and Tomahawks. With 12 men in a group, that means on average that 4 points of shock will be inflicted before coming into contact for the first time in the game, meaning the Ashigaru are down 2D6 further. Statistically speaking, that means 1 Samurai vs 1 Ashigaru in Fisticuffs is 14D6 vs 4D6. In a head-on engagement you would therefore need 3 Ashigaru, with a combined 16D6 to match the Samurai's 14D6 (plus Stubborn effect). In other words, 9 points of Wallahs are apparently equivalent to 5 points of Tribes, which is a bit off.
I think the valuing of Mass Troops might need work more generally, although I say this with having only played Peninsula games and merely having considered branching out. One issue I take is with making Tribes with a certain weapon equivalent to Conscripts & Volunteers with said weapon, and with Clans being equivalent to Regulars, since both would have 50% more firing men and substantially more dice in melee. This isn't such a big deal with muskets, but if you've got rifles, rifled muskets or breech-loaders then Tribes and Clans become more cost effective than Conscripts and Regulars, and the points left over can be put into Leaders, adding more flexibility.
However, we are in luck! The melee-only Samurai in the Boshin War list (free download on the website) are rated 5 points. They have 4 positive characteristics, Step Out on 2 and always have formation, so get +8 variation, meaning +2 on top of their original value. So, that means that a Tribe group with only hand weapons starts out at 3 points.
In fact, the Boshin War lists mean that melee Clans and Wallahs can also be worked out, because you have Shinsengumi and Shogitai (Clan) and Ashigaru (Wallah) listed as well. Shinsengumi are worth 6 points with +9 variation (again +2), so the basic Clan is worth 4 points. The Ashigaru are worth 3 points with +1 variation (no change), so Wallahs are worth 3 without guns.
This presents an interesting problem, though. Compared to Tribes, Wallahs are 2 quality levels worse in Fisticuffs AND are only 6D6 to begin with compared to 8D6 for Tribes. That means that in a head-to-head fight a Tribe has twice the dice as a Wallah, but begins in theory with equal points value. Taking into account the necessities of command and control, perhaps Wallahs should be worth 2 rather than 3 without firearms.
As an extra thought, going back to the Boshin War list, the Samurai get Stubborn, Aggressive and Tomahawks. With 12 men in a group, that means on average that 4 points of shock will be inflicted before coming into contact for the first time in the game, meaning the Ashigaru are down 2D6 further. Statistically speaking, that means 1 Samurai vs 1 Ashigaru in Fisticuffs is 14D6 vs 4D6. In a head-on engagement you would therefore need 3 Ashigaru, with a combined 16D6 to match the Samurai's 14D6 (plus Stubborn effect). In other words, 9 points of Wallahs are apparently equivalent to 5 points of Tribes, which is a bit off.
I think the valuing of Mass Troops might need work more generally, although I say this with having only played Peninsula games and merely having considered branching out. One issue I take is with making Tribes with a certain weapon equivalent to Conscripts & Volunteers with said weapon, and with Clans being equivalent to Regulars, since both would have 50% more firing men and substantially more dice in melee. This isn't such a big deal with muskets, but if you've got rifles, rifled muskets or breech-loaders then Tribes and Clans become more cost effective than Conscripts and Regulars, and the points left over can be put into Leaders, adding more flexibility.