The very start into SP2... Basic question

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NapolOrk
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:04 am

The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by NapolOrk »

Hello,

I want to start in SharpPractice 2 and printet out the D&D booklet to get infotmations beside the CP-YouTube videos.

So I want to start with SP2. But I recognized searching this forum my intention to go for the War of the Spanish Succession does lead into trouble as the tactics did change - so my pair of Warlord Starter kits stay unopended... sadly.


So I pulled the second drawer an looked for napoleonic miniatures.

So I have got for Austrian and French troops:

2x French Line Infantey (Perry Plastic)
1 x Austrian Line Infantery (Victrix)

1x French Foot 6pdr Artillery (Vctrix)
3 x Austrian Wurst 6pdr Artillery (Perry Metal)

1 x French Curassiers (Perry Metal)
1 x Austrian hvy. Cavallery (Perry Plastic for Curassiers)

2 x French Hussars (Perry Plastic)
2 x Austrian Hussars (Perry Plastics)

And some Austrian and French casulties for markers.

So now I figured out thast Infantry is based 20x20mm

But I am unshure about Artillery and Cavallery. In particular as I need to place the crew's miniatures in a removable way.
Are there any regulations?

Is SP2 useable for bigger Hussar actions and curassier clashes?



Thanks Chris
Archdukek
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Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by Archdukek »

Hi NapolOrk,
Welcome to Sharp Practice. It’s a great set of rules and from what you describe you should have plenty of troops to choose from.

However, to answer your last question first, the primary focus of the rules is on infantry action in the Black Powder era with cavalry in a supporting role. You certainly could use them for an all cavalry clash, not that I have ever tried, but you would probably need a larger than normal table to give you scope to manoeuvre, particularly when your cavalry start moving at speed. It takes time for them to both speed up or slow down and their manoeuvrability is impaired when moving at a canter or gallop.

In my experience Light Cavalry are more useful in normal games since the focus is on skirmish actions, not massed cavalry charges.

There are no rules on basing. You can use what you want as long as there is reasonable consistency between the two sides. One thing you may want to consider is do you intend to use the same figures with other rules with more specific basing requirements since you could base for those and still use the figures for SP.

In 28mm scale then 20x20mm bases is very common for Line Infantry, since it also works for other rules like General D’Armee or Black Powder, with 25mm square or round bases being another popular option. 25mm round bases are popular for Skirmish troops to give them a more dispersed look.

For cavalry you should probably be considering using a 25x50mm or 50x50mm for two since that is also a common base type in other rules. You will struggle to fit some 28mm cavalry on a smaller 20x40mm base.

My artillery is based on 60mm square bases with the crew individually based on 20x20mm bases to track casualties since that’s what I use in other games.

For your initial Forces you should be looking at building 5-6 Groups of Line infantry, so 40-48 figures, plus 2 groups of Skirmish Troops (12 figures) with 4-5 individual Leaders.
Cavalry come in groups of 8 when mounted and you really want to field a minimum of 2 groups if you field any at all.
Artillery are 1 gun with 5 crew and a Leader. One gun is usually enough or perhaps two in particular scenarios.

If you start with one of the core forces in the rules that is a good way to learn the game.

John
Levi the Ox
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Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:57 pm

Re: The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by Levi the Ox »

There are no rules here, as my heathen 40mm round-based cavalry can attest to!

Archdukek's advice above is good, I'll just add a recommendation for a handful of civilian, or at least characterful rear-echelon figures, for use as NPCs and/or minor support options. They really liven up the game! The Perry ranges have some fun ones, as do Brigade Games.

As to artillery, if you're clever with assembling and basing the guns, you can get a very flexible unit.

Here are my Victrix French, with a kit-bashed base that is a 40mm round trimmed to match half of a 25x50mm pill, for a total length of 60mm. It allows most of the crew poses to fit beside the gun neatly even though they are separately based, which is important as the Gribeauval guns will alternately serve my French and Spanish armies. I've also magnetized the carriage to fit both the 8- and 12-pdr barrels from the kit.

Image
NapolOrk
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:04 am

Re: The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by NapolOrk »

Thanks a lot John...

As I do my bases from 2mm plywood this is a goid help for me. So I can start with the bases as a mass production job.

But do I get such a "core force" build out of these sets of miniatures I ordered, John?
NapolOrk
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:04 am

Re: The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by NapolOrk »

Hallo Levy, tbe idea to use the magnets to change the barrels is a great one. I will keep that in mind and steal it for my figures on the bases, too.

On the bases I do think I will use a doubel layer of 2mm poplar plywood with holes in the upper one for the figures and an iron thumb tack on the floor. So the crew will get bases of a compund material of 1mm plastic sheet to insert the crew's miniatures secured by 1mm magnetic foil slots into the surrounding 2mm gun's base. So this should fit.

But there is (beside the complex procedures of building and fitting in the bases) an interesting question left.
I can lower the gun by the wheel's grooves in the ground but the figures will be lifted 4mm above ground is this an issue (as in BoltAction hight is a factour due to line of sight!)???
NapolOrk
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:04 am

Re: The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by NapolOrk »

Here my doodling-like semi free hand scetch to the artillery base as a side cut view through the centerline without wheels and full barrel:



As you can see it lifts the crew 2mm up above all other figures without a tray.
. Loading up pictures isn't my best skill.
Levi the Ox
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:57 pm

Re: The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by Levi the Ox »

Yeah, the pictures are wonky on the forum sometimes. I usually upload them using facebook and then link to that image.

The victrix and perry plastics have a built-in small tab base 1-2mm thick. It isn't too hard to remove, but you could probably trim it down and attach the magnetic material to that. I assume your infantry will just be on 2mm bases? A total difference of 2-3mm is less than the height of an in-scale shako, so it will probably only be noticeable if you place them directly adjacent to each other, I doubt it will affect gameplay.

If you expect to be playing a lot on a certain set of terrain (yours, a friends' or a club's) it can be handy to assemble one figure and compare them to walls, fences, doors, and windows to double-check. In general though, you should be good, plenty of figures and bases include dramatic poses or scenic elements so some variation in silhouette is to be expected. Base 'em so that you like they way they look!



Parts-wise, you're absolutely good on French line infantry, and probably on Austrian at least to start. Plenty of artillery and cavalry, and you can even squeeze a third group of Hussars on each side out of the two kits, if you're careful about who you assemble as what. You will be limited in skirmishers, especially for the Austrians since you don't have many to spare.

I don't know what Austrian troops usually skirmished, but if both of the Perry French infantry boxes are the "line" version, you'll have 8-9 groups of Fusiliers but only enough bodies for 2 groups of "proper" Voltigeurs or Grenadiers with all the bells and whistles. If one is the Elite Company box, you'll be solid for both line and elite figures (roughly 5 and 5), but even if not there are plenty of fancy hats you can use on some of the fusilier bodies for makeshift Grenadiers in a pinch, especially if they are the greatcoated version.

As a heads-up, I think you will be a couple figures short for the artillery crews if you field all three guns at the same time, as the Victrix French crew are 5-per and the Austrians look to be 4-per, but Sharp Practice calls for 6-figure crews (counting the leader). You can fill up the numbers with some spare infantry (as was historical practice) carrying ropes, buckets, etc. from the victrix sprue.

Be sure to assemble a number of different-looking officers and sergeants for leaders. You'll need one for every gun, cavalry, or skirmish group, and at least two for every three line groups. You'll probably only need one musician and one standard bearer in total, but any spares can be used for objective or deployment point vignettes, support options, sergeants or gun numbers, etc.
NapolOrk
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:04 am

Re: The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by NapolOrk »

Thanks Levi, for the intersting and intensivly accumulated information - realy this is a great help to me! I thought about cutting of the given base already but was unshure if the miniature will withstand the forces of being pulled from the Artillery base by hand working forces against the magnetic force. This as only the small feet do give connection ground to the miniature's base at all.
But I think I will try to reduce only the thickness of the moulded base and glue them onto a miniatures base. For God's sake I do own a simple small disk sander. And yes the miniatures are glued onto poplar plywood of 2mm thickness. The non interaction of the figures hight to the game play gives me a good feeling of not being wrong.

I am highly interested to see the miniatures - but they are still on their way.

I ordered so after your advice six tin artillery men for the Austrian guns this time from TrentMiniatures immediately 😁.

So there is some variation in the miniatures and I can add perhaps some male civilians additivly as I can colour them analog to the uniforms so the may match as infantry in "reduced dress due to hard labor". 😉

The skirmishes at the Austrians were afaIk mainly "Grenzers" and "Jaeger" - both available in the Eureka production line

https://www.eurekamin.com.au/news.php?n ... lpEXWXMIsY

but also as Hungarians from the Trent Miniatures:
https://arcanesceneryandmodels.co.uk/?s ... pe=product

are possible.
And also line infantery changed to skirmishing as the text tells you.

So a pack of 8or 16 additive Austrians would be welcomed due to the bigger French troopers number.? Is it okay to swing from Line Infantery towards Grenadiers? Buying a smaller number for a pair of Grenadier groups of eight as I counted on the Tabletop CP channel on youtube?

But how many are needed? Is is enough buying one package of advancing and one of fireing or twice the number?

EDIT:
Before 1809 Grenzers Jaegers only were in Skirmishing tasks - till 1809/1810 line troopers joined them.. so there is only the question of quantity been left.

btw:
WHY ARE THERE NEVER ANY
LEFT-OVER-MINIATURES?
Last edited by NapolOrk on Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
Levi the Ox
Posts: 246
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:57 pm

Re: The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by Levi the Ox »

You're welcome! I've been digging deep into my own Spanish & French forces lately, so it's been on the mind!
NapolOrk wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:54 pm So there is some variation in the miniatures and I can add perhaps some male civilians additivly as I can colour them analog to the uniforms so the may match as infantry in "reduced dress due to hard labor". 😉
Perry have some nice infantry on tow-rope detail I got with my last order, in fatigue caps and such, it's fun to add some variety like that!


NapolOrk wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:54 pm So a pack of 8or 16 addituie Austrians would be welcomed due to the bigger French troopers number.? Is it okay to swing from Line Infantery towards Grenadiers? Buying a smaller number for a pair of Grenadier groups of eight as I counted on the Tabletop CP channel on youtube?

But how many are needed? Is is enough buying one package of advancing and one of fireing or twice the number?
Ah, so by "line" infantry I wasn't referring to their status or seniority so much as their close-order formation. Sharp Practice has three categories of infantry for rules purposes based on their usual formation: Line Troops, Skirmish Troops, and Mass Troops.
- Line Troops are formed close-order soldiers. Elites, regulars, conscripts, and militia. Groups of 8 figures (10 for militia)*.
- Skirmish Troops are open-order soldiers. Light infantry, skirmishers, irregulars. Groups of 6 figures.
- Mass Troops are dense but unformed mobs. Clans, tribes, wallahs. Groups of 12 figures
*The militia group size of 10 seems odd, since a larger group is more powerful and less likely to retreat. Haven't tried it myself, though.
**Remember that you also need at least 1 leader for every 2 groups or so.

The quality of a given unit applies some modifiers but rarely change the basic rules, so grenadiers will fight in the same way as their fusilier siblings, they will just sometimes be rated higher for bonuses. Skirmishers will fight in a different way, though, so I'd prioritize getting at least 2 groups of them first to have a wider array of options. Some troops like flank companies can even be deployed as line or skirmishers from game-to-game. For my Peninsular French, for example, I am building up several groups of Gendarmes, who will fill either role depending on how I want to represent them in that scenario.

EDIT: Ah! Missed this line the first time through:
NapolOrk wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:54 pm And also line infantery changed to skirmishing as the text tells you.
In that case you're golden! If you assemble two units of the line infantry kit in more dynamic poses you can cover your base with skirmishers

If you get grenadiers you'll probably want at least 2 groups (16 Troops + 1 Leader), so a pack of each pose set sounds perfect. That plus some skirmishers and the line fusiliers (EDIT: or just using some of the fusiliers as skirmishers) you already have would make for a solid game force. You'd only need more if you were doing a really big game or if you wanted to use them as the core of your force and not take any fusiliers.

NapolOrk wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:54 pm WHY ARE THERE NEVER ANY
LEFT-OVER -MINIATURES?
Haha, I know, right!!!
At least since a lot of officers wore whatever they found fashionable you have some leeway in leader options.

It's likely because the rulesets and the miniatures ranges feedback loop into each other.

Person #1 writes rules with units nicely divisible by 4 or 6 (notice that 12 & 24 are both).
Person #2 plays #1's rules, and then packages miniatures to go along with them rules.
Person #3 is writing rules, sees that #2's miniatures come in groups of 6 or 8, and writes rules using that number.
Etc.
NapolOrk
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:04 am

Re: The very start into SP2... Basic question

Post by NapolOrk »

Thanks for the wounderfull help you give..

So I bought some officiets and artillery nen from several tin casting companies and hope to get a more mixed field if figures in the game. I also bought some bare heads to cut some heads off* and join the bare as a further variation with the bodies...

I also think about buying some civilians for additive variety to the gun crews and Officer's corps painting them close to regimental colour... in a mor fashionable way of wearing more a kind of aristocratic suit than sharing uniform with their ordinary privates.

BUT how liberal was the Austrian uniformation regime?

I also got some revolutionary war officiers and sergants showing tbeir republican ideology by keeping the old uniforms - not further promoted due to their opinions to the Emporer or being proud of their long time in duty showing their skills by outdated light shaded uniforms...

But (as narrative as it is in the rules set) is it on both sides realistic?

______
*Maximilian Marie Isidor de Robespierre was leading in that business making him. a selfmademan at the very end... 😉
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