Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

Post by john de terre neuve » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:17 pm

Thanks Andy, I have just posted an AR of our game. In retrospect, I was next to a JOP when I decided to withdraw so I am not sure why I elected to run off the table. It would have been better to hunker down and wait until the American unit on the left flank had cleared the minefield and was in a position to withdraw.

I think though that the FO/SL combo started off as members of a larger formation when they started to withdraw and although everyone else was killed it was quite reasonable that I played an Interrupt when I did.

Anyway it was a great game and thanks to Tom for putting it on.

http://fuentesdeonoro.blogspot.com/2018 ... paign.html

John

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sjwalker51
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Re: Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

Post by sjwalker51 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:42 pm

What was it that a very wise man once said? “play the period, not the rules” - on which basis, I’d certainly expect the Leader to get out of danger as quickly as possible, by whatever means (including an Interrupt) necessary.

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Tom Ballou
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Re: Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

Post by Tom Ballou » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:03 pm

Seret wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:46 am
I don't think you need to worry too much about whether what you're doing is "correct" John. You're dealing with edge cases that aren't covered specifically by the rules while also including some on-the-spot rule modifications by allowing a squad to withdraw independently of the platoon. Once your outside the normal rules like that then however you want to play it is fair game.

Personally though, I would agree that a unit withdrawn from the table in that way would mean a BTH role. In the case of your SL that's gonna hurt, but I suppose it's better than having him killed in a campaign.
FWIW, I had no issue with John using the interupt to move the surviving leaders. It was more of a RAW vs actual play usage question.

As for fleeing being a BTH check, I’m not sure. The board is wide open, and my .08 could see to the edge. I see no reason to keep a leader on the table to be killed. But a controlled withdrawal different from a routs off table? I think so, but then again he was running for his life. 12d6 is going to deliver some hits and likely kills.

We did not treat it as a BTH, but it’s worth asking Rich on his opinion. As I would try as hard as I could to preserve leaders.

If I had killed his SL that could have ended the game as he withdrew from the first round with 3 morale. And it would have severely affected his play in the next round.
--Tom

Never drive a car when you're dead
--Tom Waits "Telephone Call From Istanbul"

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Tom Ballou
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Re: Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

Post by Tom Ballou » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:26 pm

john de terre neuve wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:17 pm
Thanks Andy, I have just posted an AR of our game. In retrospect, I was next to a JOP when I decided to withdraw so I am not sure why I elected to run off the table. It would have been better to hunker down and wait until the American unit on the left flank had cleared the minefield and was in a position to withdraw.

I think though that the FO/SL combo started off as members of a larger formation when they started to withdraw and although everyone else was killed it was quite reasonable that I played an Interrupt when I did.

Anyway it was a great game and thanks to Tom for putting it on.

http://fuentesdeonoro.blogspot.com/2018 ... paign.html

John
I don’t think hunkering down was an option. I was beating them up while they were in hard cover. You got very lucky on your leader hit rolls. I should have hit one before you decided to cut and run. Also you would have to bear my fire for a number of rounds, as what was preventing you from withdrawing was your mine clearance team finishing the job.

Maybe shifting the mortars over my bunker would have shut it down, but you could have choked on your next mission roll exposing all your squads to my fire including my MMG team that was pinned under the current mortar barrage.

So I think you made the best choice out of a number of bad options.
Last edited by Tom Ballou on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
--Tom

Never drive a car when you're dead
--Tom Waits "Telephone Call From Istanbul"

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Seret
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Re: Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

Post by Seret » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:01 pm

RAW you can't voluntarily withdraw individual units, only the whole platoon. So if you want to allow it then your flying by the seat of yer pants anyway.

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Tom Ballou
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Re: Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

Post by Tom Ballou » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:54 pm

Exactly, he couldn't withdraw off a JoP, with out pulling completely out.

So making a run of the edge of the table was he only option. But is this a BTH?
--Tom

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--Tom Waits "Telephone Call From Istanbul"

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Seret
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Re: Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

Post by Seret » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:55 pm

There's nothing in the rules about units being able to exit the table via an edge. So whether it's a BTH roll is up to you. What is in the rules is that it mentions that transports may be withdrawn "with no effect on Force Morale". Nothing about infantry.

To me if a fighting element of the platoon sods off (either voluntarily or involuntarily) it's going to be viewed as a Bad Thing by the lads expected to stay and fight. Seeing your CO gap it is likely to be especially unpopular.

So yeah, me personally, if an opponent wanted to run his CO off the table edge I'd allow it, but it would be a "SL routs" roll on the Shit Happens Table.

Unless of course it's this guy, and he was running him off my table edge, in which case good luck to him!

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:11 am

Rather surprised he didn't pause to blow up the tiger with one of his grenades on the way ............. :lol:

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Tom Ballou
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Re: Can isolated Leader move on an interruption?

Post by Tom Ballou » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:23 am

This from Lardie 6 Actual
Lol. This is a classic bit of wargamer logic. It is, of course, caused by the artificial nature of having a table edge which doesn't exist in real life.

So, let's think about this. What has happened is that a significant individual has voluntarily left the battlefield. Force Morale is all about how events look to "the team". To my mind a leader leaving the battlefield voluntarily is going to look like rats deserting a sinking ship. That cannot be anything but negative. It is true that he may not have routed according to the letter of the law, but to his men it certainly looks like it. He has elected to leave them in the lurch. That's a de facto rout to me. Test as such.
So we did it wrong! Ha you lose John! (I think I would have driven you to Morale 0 or you would have to give up on the mine field clearing) :o
--Tom

Never drive a car when you're dead
--Tom Waits "Telephone Call From Istanbul"

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