What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

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sjwalker51
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What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by sjwalker51 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 5:14 pm

I’m sure it’s been covered before but I’m struggling to find the definitive answer: in a one-off game, when a team or section to which a knocked out Leader is attached routs, do they take said Leader with them, or leave him to his fate?

Today’s example was an extreme one: the sole survivor of a rifle team was hit by 4 Shock from heavy machine gun fire so immediately legged it and it seemed unlikely that he’d have risked lugging Lieutenant Gruber with him under the circumstances.

In a campaign situation, we’d have the men’s opinion rating to guide us, but what’s the general rule?

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Re: What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by Archdukek » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:30 pm

There is no rule that I'm aware of. I generally play that the men will abandon any wounded leader to his fate if they break. They panic and run every man for himself. If the Leader recovers before he is contacted by the enemy he can withdraw, but if they reach him first then he's captured which I'd treat as a BTH table roll for Leader killed.

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Re: What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by MLB » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:15 pm

We play with the general rule that a knocked out leader always remains with his unit when they move. In your example you could interpret it either way, so perhaps decide it with a die roll? 4,5 or 6 he goes with him (maybe modify for troop quality -1 pip for Green troops and +1 for elite?).
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Tom Ballou
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Re: What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by Tom Ballou » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:58 pm

I’m going to go for every man for himself, and they abandon the leader.

If doing a campaign, I agree if the men really loved him, they would try to save him. But without the background of a campaign, I see no reason not to bugger off without him, but you could roll for it too.
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by Truscott Trotter » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:04 am

I would do it the other way.
They take him unless they dislike him.....or they're Soviets :o :lol:

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Re: What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by oozeboss » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:03 am

:lol: :ugeek: I'm with TT on this one. :roll: :twisted:
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Re: What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by Gaff-Oz » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:36 am

We've always played that the unit drags or carries their unconscious leader with them (but then I play British after all, what!). However I don't remember ever coming up against a routing unit in the circumstance. I guess I'd go with carrying him with them for consistency unless, I'd agreed with my opponent beforehand, but a coin toss seem a fair way to approach it as well.

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Re: What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by sackatatties » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:39 pm

The only time it really matters is when they rout off table. I'd rule the leader goes with the unit in all cases, just to cover that instance.
Of course if they rout as a result of close combat the leader is captured and counts as lost, gubbed, executed, given a quick snifter by the capturing officer, or given a fag and carted off to captivity on a stretcher.

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Re: What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by Seret » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:20 am

We've always played that they carry him when they leg it, unless it's close combat they're fleeing from.

I like the idea of basing it on the men's opinion though, maybe anybody at -9 or less gets left? Or under the opinion on 2d6 to see what happens?

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Re: What happens to a knocked out Leader when his men rout?

Post by sjwalker51 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:19 am

I’d certainly agree that he’d get left behind if the rout was as a result of close combat.

In this case, the rout was caused by MG fire. Had the Leader been carried away with his men, he’d have been safely out of LOS of his opponent’s men and could not then be fired upon again, or captured, resulting in further BTH tests. We rolled with a 50/50 chance, he got left behind, was wounded again and, but for the use of a CoC dice, that BTH test could have ended the game.

In Pint Sized Campaigns, we’ve used the men’s opinion rating as a modifier to see the fate of the Leader in similar situations several times.

It’s clear that there’s no consensus on this one - maybe one for Big Rich to adjudicate on, once he’s finished the 1940 handbook?

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