Deployment points - size relevant or not?

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Iztvan
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Deployment points - size relevant or not?

Post by Iztvan » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:03 am

Does it matter how big or small deployment points are? Or do you just measure distanses from the center point?

Rich H
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Re: Deployment points - size relevant or not?

Post by Rich H » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:25 am

Not really., jsut measure form the centre but if you both use the same it won't matter.

Contrarius
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Re: Deployment points - size relevant or not?

Post by Contrarius » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:34 am

It might matter if you're deploying limbered artillery as (iirc) this is supposed to start in actual contact with the deployment marker.

(As an inside I'd love to clarify if this rule means you can have the rear of the limbered piece just touching the marker while the front of your 6-horse team, is more than 9 inches closer to the enemy? In a sense I suppose this is fair as the more horses in your team the faster your gun will travel. Except that, of course, there is no extra cost for limbered compared to unlimbered artillery (again, iirc)).

Archdukek
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Re: Deployment points - size relevant or not?

Post by Archdukek » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:55 am

In my experience most players don't use limbers with their artillery so the question rarely arises. However, if you do, and I can see why it would be attractive in Sharp Practice, just use the position of the gun to determine where the artillery is since the limber plays no part in the game.

So place the gun in contact with the Deployment Point and when you unlimber use the gun as the position for the deployed artillery not the front of the limber. Problem solved.

Just remember when you deploy and move your artillery limbered then they are unloaded.

John

Contrarius
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Re: Deployment points - size relevant or not?

Post by Contrarius » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:19 pm

Can't agree with you on the limbered arty @archdukek. When unlimbering, the guns should be on the position of the lead horses, otherwise there's no point having them. Arty is slow enough, and even limbered arty seems to crawl along.

I've noticed that many folk these days don't bother with limbers which seems a shame, nay a travesty of the game. Arty came with a massive 'tail' of waggons, caissons, support staff, etc. It was a major encumberance on the field and in getting to the field in the first place, blocking all the roads. Napoleon's heavier guns were issued as many as five caissons per gun, the lighter ones three.

Sure, in static scenarios an unlimbered model may be ok, but even then it would have some form of boxes, usually on wheels, to store powder and ammo. In bigger games (not SP) I see people sometimes provide a single limber for a battery of three or four guns, which usually sits sideways at right angles to the battery, to keep it out of the way. But the whole point is, that these guns DID take up a lot of space, and surely this should be modelled.

In part I blame it on the manufacturers, since it can be quite hard to get hold of model limbers: they always seem to be out of stock.

Archdukek
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Re: Deployment points - size relevant or not?

Post by Archdukek » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:29 pm

I was simply pointing out how you can make limbers work within the Sharp Practice rules without gaining any undue advantage while still complying with the requirement that guns deploy on the table in contact with the deployment point. The alternative would be to place the front of the limber in contact with the deployment point with the gun trailing behind, possibly even off table. Your choice.

Virtually all Napoleonic rules I can think of ignore the presence of limbers, caissons, etc and different distances behind the gun line and allow free movement of other troops through that area. It is difficult to persuade players that the "empty space" behind a gun line contains potential obstacles to free movement, particularly for troops moving in line.

However, if you want to model the presence of those various vehicles go ahead, but at the groundscale of a Sharp Practice game a gun's usual accompanying vehicles would be located some way to the rear. Around 12" from the gun's position to the first caisson and correspondingly a further 12" to the next line typically. Plenty of room for SP groups and Formations to move in the gaps.

John

Contrarius
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Re: Deployment points - size relevant or not?

Post by Contrarius » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:03 am

Agreed, in SP the physical encumbrance caused by caissons and other vehicles is a non issue. You will seldom have more than one gun in any case.

Still disagree with you on the placing of limbered arty though. Horse arty was intended to move at the pace of the cavalry, thus the *front* of the limbered piece should be able to deploy to more or less the same distance as a horse unit would. My limbered (1/72 scale) 6-horse guns measure in at just a minchkin over 9 inches, which ties in closely (iirc) with the distance allowed to cavalry. By extension limbered foot arty pieces, let’s call them 4-horse, should be able to deploy in about 7.5 ins from the Dep Pt.

If, however, your gun is unlimbered and ready to fire - in the actual turn of deployment - then I'd agree the rear of the gun itself should probably be in contact with the DPt.

Another thing I'm not clear about is whether guns that are unlimbering and firing for the first time need to go through the whole rigamarole of loading, or are they considered like musketeers, to be preloaded? Personally, can't imagine a shot staying securely loaded after a journey of a few hundred yards on a 19th century road.

BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: Deployment points - size relevant or not?

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:41 am

Contrarius wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:03 am
Another thing I'm not clear about is whether guns that are unlimbering and firing for the first time need to go through the whole rigamarole of loading, or are they considered like musketeers, to be preloaded? Personally, can't imagine a shot staying securely loaded after a journey of a few hundred yards on a 19th century road.
I would say that, in general, guns travelled unloaded. Quite apart from the problem of retaining the shot in the barrel (which, in addition to being jolted would also be pointing downwards due to the position of the carriage on the limber), there was no guarantee that the particular type of round "up the spout" would be the one that was actually needed.

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Quackstheking
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Re: Deployment points - size relevant or not?

Post by Quackstheking » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:34 am

It’s covered in the FAQ’s that artillery cannot move limbered whilst loaded. So once unlimbered (one action), artillery will need another two actions to load.

Don

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