Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

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john de terre neuve
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Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by john de terre neuve » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:18 am

I know this has been hashed out quite a bit in the past but we had a recent Winter War game where we played with 5 Command Dice per side rather the the 6 and 4 Command Dice as laid out in the Finnish and Early Soviet lists for Winter War.

I adjusted the the Supports for the game by 9 because of the differences in their respective Force Rating but I think now maybe I should have also made an adjustment in the Supports because of the change in the number of Command Dice given to each side.

I had played a few games of Winter War about 3 years ago and it was just no fun for the Soviets playing with 4 CD dice against a Finnish Force with 6 CD. I had looked at Rich's suggestion in the recent FAQ for forces with 6 CD but did not use it.

Is there a calculation within the CoCalculator to adjust the number of supports if one increases the number of CD.

I just have a sense that the Finns would have a difficult time winning any game where the CD were equalized at 5 aside.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

John

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Seret
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Re: Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by Seret » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:46 pm

It's not in the actual CoCulator document, but Rich has confirmed that force rating should be adjusted by +/-2 for changes to command dice.

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Re: Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by OldNick » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:57 pm

Yes, try the FAQ suggestions, and the rating adjustments mentioned by Seret to see if that gives a sensible result.
Last edited by OldNick on Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Seret
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Re: Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by Seret » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:21 pm

I don't know that much about the Winter War, but just looking at the lists there is an option for regular Finnish troops, and if playing after Jan 1940 the Soviets can be regular, too. So looks like you can do a regular/green or a regular/regular matchup?

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Re: Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by Munin » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:51 pm

I would definitely play the Soviets at 5 Command Dice. While individual troopers may have been green, the Red Army started the war with a pretty solid NCO cadre, which in some sense is represented in the number of Command Dice used. So yeah, they'll take more casualties and suffer from morale problems (both of which are represented in the game), but they shouldn't necessarily be much harder to control in the field.

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Re: Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by Truscott Trotter » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:32 pm

I agree and would save 4 CD for militia or partisan type forces, just like I would save 6CD for the really elite forces.
The 5 CD plus a die pool seems to work well for the better than average troops.

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Re: Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by chris cornwell » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:21 am

Or the “superior regular” option where a single 6 is treated like a 5, and generates a CoC pip

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Re: Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by Truscott Trotter » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:52 am

Have not tried that one but sounds worth a try.

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Re: Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by Rich H » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:18 am

I'd make the Finns Reg, they weren't well equipped, trained or supplie. Mostly they were far better at existing/surviving in that environment.

So make the Sovs green but with 5 dice and the Finns Reg with 5 dice.

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Re: Green and Elite Force Command Dice?

Post by john de terre neuve » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:39 am

Thanks everyone.

First the 4CD/Soviet option is really off the table, having watched 3-4 games with a player having 4CD is just no fun for the player and I think the Soviets although maybe poorly supplied were not that poorly led and I do not think merit a 4 in the Winter War.

At the same time to make the Finns regular is a little chancy, they have half the men in each squad and would only get a -3 on the support calculation in regular vs green. I think they would have a tough time to win any game. I am not really sure also if they were not elite in the Battles along the Raate Road on which my campaign is centred. A regular vs regular would give the the Finns +6 in support, maybe enough but not sure.

So I think I am left with doing:
1 What I did Elite and Green with 5CD each
2 Elite and Green with 5CD each but adjusting the supports by 2 to the benefit of the Finns
3 Go with 6CD for the Elite Finns with the recent FAQ adjustment* and 5 for Green Soviets (superior regular)

*
If using a unit with six command dice (and not all elite troops should automatically get this benefit, as we will show in forthcoming handbooks) one of the command dice should be a distinct and different colour to the others rolled. So, for example, you might roll five white dice and one red one. If the differently coloured dice, red in our example, rolls 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 it is treated as normal. If the red dice rolls 6 then this is converted to a 5 immediately and does not count towards multiple phases.
I want to change what I did so it will have to be option 2 or 3. I think maybe 3 but still thinking.

John

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