1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

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Captain Reid
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by Captain Reid » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:28 pm

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:27 am
That's interesting - 3/1st Foot was in 5th Division, which had two of the BOJ rifle companies attached to it (one of them to the same brigade as the 3/1st). There's no confusion as to which type of company it was, is there? Do you have any documentary reference by any chance?
It may well have been the rifle company that was assigned to its brigade, which seemed to me most likely - and as Hay commanded the brigade for a good while it may have been mere association that way. However the chap who told me it was a musket company and semi-integrated into the bn was at the Royal Scots museum at Edinburgh Castle (working, not merely a passing tourist . . .). He was remarkably well informed on the Peninsular antics of the battalion and so he may have good reason. If I see him again over the summer, I'll ask.

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military ... kOels.html

The above article on the BOJ on the Napoleon Series website actually shows them temporarily reduced to eight companies from May to September 1811, and then back up to nine again thereafter. It isn't obvious that it is a manpower issue, as this part of the battalion remained around the 550 total throughout this period, so I had wondered if it was an attempt to equalise the formation to make it easier to manoeuvre, and the reversion to nine companies reflected an unofficial "light" company being created, rather than persevering with using third rankers as skirmishers.
That's possible. To be honest I hadn't thought of them continuing with third ranker skirmishers when in British service, as they look to me like they served as a light battalion (being given to Craufurd at first) and then serving in the 7th 'lite' (if you will) Division brigaded with light battalions.

I suppose it is possible they detached a company for a time and that accounts for the fall from 9 to 8 and back up. But then the manpower wouldn't fit with that. It would fit with the Royal Scots story though (albeit a much shorter period of time).
Faith! If they tried to outrun a Hielandmon, they stood but a bad chance, for Whash! went the broadsword.
- James Thompson, 78th Foot.

The Saindoux Campaign, 1757, my French and Indian War blog

Cerro Manteca, 1811, my Peninsular War blog.

BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:17 pm

Captain Reid wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:28 pm
It may well have been the rifle company that was assigned to its brigade, which seemed to me most likely - and as Hay commanded the brigade for a good while it may have been mere association that way. However the chap who told me it was a musket company and semi-integrated into the bn was at the Royal Scots museum at Edinburgh Castle (working, not merely a passing tourist . . .). He was remarkably well informed on the Peninsular antics of the battalion and so he may have good reason. If I see him again over the summer, I'll ask.
If you wouldn't mind, when you're next there - very much appreciated. The other thoughts were very much my own supposition, based on what other information I've found/been given, so not set in stone by any means.
Captain Reid wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:28 pm
To be honest I hadn't thought of them continuing with third ranker skirmishers when in British service, as they look to me like they served as a light battalion (being given to Craufurd at first) and then serving in the 7th 'lite' (if you will) Division brigaded with light battalions.
It was "Redbad" (who hasn't posted on here for a while, but I believe can speak/read German fluently and has access to several German sources) who flagged this up, and in fact he contrasted this with a typical British Light Infantry battalion/regiment. I did wonder if this "foreign behaviour" was at least part of what put Black Bob's nose out of joint!

Oh, and thank you once again for your contributions to the embryo lists for the Peninsula and Waterloo in previous threads - your comments were very helpful and assisted enormously in shaping the final version.

Cheers,
BvW

Contrarius
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by Contrarius » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:38 pm

Excellent stuff! Was especially looking forward to the Waterloo list, so will peruse this carefully when I get a little time.

One possible improvement is the addition of commas and/or semi-colons between the entries on the troop lists and rosters. Often find I have to read these several times to make any sense of them.

Cheers!

BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:42 pm

Yes, sorry about that - they were originally in a table, with a grid delineating each section, but it doesn't transfer to here.

Contrarius
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by Contrarius » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:53 pm

One thing that appears to be missing for 1815 is a combined Brunswick–British list.

Those eyewitness accounts on the Osprey website (supplied by John Franklin, bless his name!) place a lot of prominence on the Highland regiment that fought alongside the Brunswickers (which was it, Gordons or Camerons, or maybe both?) and that would certainly make a colourful and popular addition. Also, Wellington pushed forward at least one RHA battery to the Brunswickers aid at Waterloo (Mercers?) and also perhaps at QB, and that again would add a unique uniform and lots of colour. (The Brunswick artillery arrived rather late in the day at QB, and the casualty figures suggest it wasn't heavily engaged.) The Belgian dragoon unit that retreated in great disorder at the start of the QB engagement across the Brunswickers position would make a less popular addition to the list :)

This is all thinking out loud really, but it would certainly add colour, character and unique uniforms to that sea of black. I, for one, don't yet have enough Brunswick troops to field a force made up entirely of Brunswickers, so this might be an interesting stop-gap.

BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:49 am

Good thoughts, Contrarius. In the same way that you could have an all-German (ie no British) Peninsula force, using KGL Light Bn riflemen and hussars accompanying the main body of the BOJ, you could equally have an Allied 100 Days force with no British troops, just Dutch-Belgian artillery and cavalry?

Interesting that Pack's brigade at QB was positioned next to the left flank of the Brunswickers, as that brigade included the 3/1st Foot, which Captain Reid mentioned in his earlier post about the Peninsula, as well as the 42nd and 92nd (the 79th was in Kempt's brigade, which was further east).

Contrarius
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by Contrarius » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:48 am

Just read that it was the 42nd Black Watch that took the biggest pounding of the highland units at Quatre Bras, mainly as a result of some French line lancers getting in their square before it could be fully closed. Just so happens that the highland unit I have modelled is the Black Watch. Also have 1st Royal Scots and 28th North Gloucesters, so my Brunswickers can look forward to some proper historical support on the tabletop.

BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:06 pm

Can anyone tell me how to upload these lists as files onto the Yahoo! page, or do I need permission from RC or one of the other Top Lards?

rim66
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by rim66 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:22 pm

Upload button top right.

Kind regards,

Richard aka Monty Lardo

BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: 1809, Peninsula and Waterloo Brunswickers

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:41 am

Thanks - seems to have worked.

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