P107 Von Luck

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Theflyingsnark
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P107 Von Luck

Post by Theflyingsnark » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:56 am

The P107 is shown on the armour tables on p22 of the Von Luck campaign as being a transport and has 2 dashes under the columns for AP and HE.

In the main rule book any half track or weapons carrier that has a weapons mount has MG, HMG or "as Weapon" under the AP and HE columns, indicating suitably equipped infantry units could mount those weapons on that vehicle.

I looked up the P107 under Wikipedia and it shows an unarmed halftrack without weapons mounts, primarily used for towing large guns, however the Germans converted these to U304 halftracks with a variety of weapon mounts and armour!

Primarily because the campaign has it listed with dashes I assumed that team MMG's could not be mounted.

The other thing is that the P107 is listed in Von Luck as support level 2 and a Hanomag (Armoured transport with weapon mounts) in the main rules is support level 3!

But on the other hand, if it's an unconverted P107 why is it armour 2 like a Hanomag?

The question is, Should we assume it's a typo error and assume its actually a converted U304 with weapon mounts as its being used by the Germans?

sackatatties
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Re: P107 Von Luck

Post by sackatatties » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:04 am

The P107 is the French 'equivalent' of a Hanomag in role and effect.

The support points are correct for the KGvL campaign. Pint Sized Campaigns often have bespoke ratings to reflect the author's approach to that specific action. It's often mentioned in the blurb as such but not always.

MGs do not come free on the transports. You only get the transport (with no weapons). Any additional MGs must be paid for, or in the case of PzGrens just use their squad LMGs on the pintels instead.

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pedivere
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Re: P107 Von Luck

Post by pedivere » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:25 am

simply reading the Wiki article on P107
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P107
and not only looking at the pictures, might have revealed to you the name of the german conversion U304(f), and a simple google pictures search
https://www.google.de/search?q=U304(f)& ... 80&bih=673
would have revealed the mystery of the diverging entries:

the author of the von Luck scenario used the french name of the vehicle....

forgive me for being so snarky dear boojum, I am just being angry at you for the chuzpe with witch you take a piss at Rich's game designing and our community effort of civic knowledge in the forum on the CoC facebook group without waiting even a day....

Theflyingsnark
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Re: P107 Von Luck

Post by Theflyingsnark » Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:24 pm

As I have replied on another forum, it was not that I don't know the difference between the two vehicles, I was asking which one was in the campaign.

Pedivere and myself have made our peace on another forum thread, but for those who aren't following that one I re iterate, I have nothing but respect for Mr Clark and his products.

Pedivere, your loyalty to CoC and and defence of its creator does you credit sir.

Magpie
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Re: P107 Von Luck

Post by Magpie » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:43 am

MGs do not come free on the transports. You only get the transport (with no weapons). Any additional MGs must be paid for, or in the case of PzGrens just use their squad LMGs on the pintels instead.
I'm not so sure about that.

German and US halftracks are listed as HE "MG"
British halftracks are noted "As Weapon"

That says to me some come with MG's installed
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: P107 Von Luck

Post by Truscott Trotter » Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:07 am

MGs do not come free on the transports

They do now :)

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Seret
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Re: P107 Von Luck

Post by Seret » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:25 am

Rich's original intention (and what's started in the rule book IIRC) is that transports don't come with weapons. Since then I think he's changed his mind a bit, as many of them did have their own gun. It doesn't really make a lot of difference either way. Either the passengers mount one of their guns or they don't. Either way when it's full it has an MG.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: P107 Von Luck

Post by Truscott Trotter » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:38 am

The difference is when its empty it also has a gun and gunner or should
as well as a driver
As an uncommanded vehicle is it is only activated on a 1 so is hardly likely to be a game winner

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oozeboss
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Re: P107 Von Luck

Post by oozeboss » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:23 am

As per my post on a completely separate thread, I have now become quite focused on raising a US Armored Rifle platoon (from the 36 Armored Infantry Regt. of the 3rd US Armored Infantry Div.) with which to participate in the Chain of Command event at CANCON 2017, over the last January weekend next year.

My inevitable research ("Hello, my name is ooze and I'm a fluffaholic") has indicated that each US Armored Infantry platoon had 5 M3 Half tracks embedded in each platoon (as well as 5 bazookas).

(The most comprehensive TO&E can be found at: http://www.ghqmodels.com/pdf/toe1-usarm ... lion44.pdf - this is the orbat actually closest to the list we find printed in the Big Grey Book.)

There is a discrepancy between the list published on Page 93 of said BGB and the various TO&E's available on the interweb, so I feel that it is somewhat incumbent on me to focus my support options on obtaining the 5 M3's and 2 bazookas with which to bring my platoon up to its widely accepted standard full strength before getting creative with supports. And as the Armored Infantry platoons did not use BAR's (although one TO&E states that there were 2 issued per platoon), it would seem logical to me that the .50 cals on the M3's were used for fire support for the squads instead.

If anybody can actually clarify what is legal and what is not, that will be one grey murky spot eliminated for me.

;)
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But I do believe that I am a glow-worm."

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Seret
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Re: P107 Von Luck

Post by Seret » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:33 am

Armoured infantry platoons of all nations in CoC are usually represented as the dismounted infantry component. If you want to bring some of their transport (or indeed dismounted weapons like the 30cals and 50cals) onto the table then you buy these off the support list.

It's assumed in CoC that the platoon's transports are being held in a laager slightly during the fighting. If you wanted to create a scenario where all their transport might be on table (ambush?) then you'd set the scenario up that way and wouldn't necessarily need to use the normal force balancing mechanism.

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