surf's up sniper

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talagarz
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 10:36 am

surf's up sniper

Post by talagarz »

Hi Guys,

Has anybody played the surfs up scenario sniper? I do not get the victory conditions, as vc you get to snipe, or ambush and propably kill a us soldier.
than you get out I think the game ends when one side of the engagement is gone. so if you place the tunnels far away from the village, it is rather eas to get 20 victory points for not letting the us identify the tunnels. The same is for caches as you do not allow the us player the time to search.

As us player is rather easy to get rid of the civilians and burn the houses down which means 20 vc withour ever seeing a vietcong soldier ...

so vc snipes and kills 1 or 2 soldiers and leaves the game...as snipers are not spottable (only the platoon is spottable and it does not fire, so us has to get lucky to spot in the right direction) .

Are we missing something in the victory conditions?

with regards

Jan

Archdukek
Posts: 5074
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: surf's up sniper

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Jan,
It’s a more subtle scenario than it might appear at first reading.

The VC victory conditions requires that it prevents the enemy finding the tunnels. Abandoning the table doesn’t achieve that but simply leaves the Free World forces time to complete their objectives at their leisure. The VC need to hang around long enough and do enough damage to the Americans to encourage them to withdraw preferably before roundIng up and evacuating the civilians and setting fire to the buildings and without searching for the food caches.

If the Americans simply burn the village without finding any food supplies or tunnels they just hand both a Major and Minor Military Victory to the VC, giving them 30 points to the Americans 20. So they might think they’ve won but in reality they haven’t.

Also you need to keep an eye on the Political Victory conditions too. It’s perfectly possible to achieve a Military Victory in a scenario but lose on the Political front.

While snipers are not spottable they do place a Fire Marker when they fire which can then be approached by the enemy to force the sniper to withdraw and leave an Intelligence Marker behind which might give useful Political Victory points to the Americans depending on the section 14.12 dice roll.

John

dirk bracke
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 11:52 am
Location: Gent - Belgium

Re: surf's up sniper

Post by dirk bracke »

Hi John,

I must admit not understanding this.

The US has 9 assault squads and 3 machine gun squads. The VC has 3 (smaller) assault squads and 2 snipers. As we play it the US concentrates on eliminating the squads and there isn't much the VC can do against that. As there is only 1 VC platoon once revealed it's also easily outflanked. Once revealed it's also time to storm the snipers if not already done.

The US has a lot of leaders and medics so shock does not last very long.

The time out card plays against the VC as they don't have many cards. The US should in effect reveal his troops right away to cash in his advantage. Percentage wise the US usually lands the first blows - he prepares reserve dice and then entices the VC to respond. Jan was very unlucky as US in throwing an inordinate amount of 1's for his movement but under normal circumstances he could progress very fast as there is a lot of open ground and enough rice paddies to take cover behind.

It makes that the VC will be shot to smithereens, possibly even giving double political points for completely wiped out squads. After that the US has all the time to search for caches and tunnels. The VC will have no military points and the US gets the full 30 points. For the VC it is impossible to gain a minimum of 30 political points more than the US.

The US came in from the plantation and the VC had correctly guessed that - his deployment could be called optimal. The US is predictable as this gives minimal movement minusses and still offers some cover.

What was the result in your games?

cheers

Dirk

Archdukek
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Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: surf's up sniper

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Dirk,
I’ve yet to play any of the Surf’s Up scenario. We are still collecting our kit during lockdown.

It might work better if you do allow the VC withdrawal to end the game but set a random minimum number of turns before they do. Perhaps by inserting a blank card into the deck and counting down whenever it is drawn.

If possible, and I recognise it may not be, I’d recommend that neither side reads the enemy briefing before the game. It will add to the sense of confusion and make the scenarios less predictable.

John

dirk bracke
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 11:52 am
Location: Gent - Belgium

Re: surf's up sniper

Post by dirk bracke »

Hi John,

the real pests are the machinegun squads. They keep their 4 dice (shooting) up till they lose 4 figures. Further when not activated they treat all units within 18" (if visible) as close and can thus still shoot.

Your suggestion about the extra card is very useful. We are also toying with the idea of replacing the full platoons with the lesser ones.

cheers

Dirk

Archdukek
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Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: surf's up sniper

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Dirk,
I’d definitely recommend not using the full US squads as per the TOE. I doubt that was every used to any degree other than by very Green troops in their first action. The In Country options are more realistic in my opinion, particularly Option 2 of splitting the MG squad up to reinforce the rifle squads which seems to have been common practice.

John

GavinP
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Re: surf's up sniper

Post by GavinP »

Agree with John regarding the TOE.

I have not played the scenarios and don't have it to hand but I'd imagine the other thing IMO to remember is that the VC don't have to deploy their platoon together. They can use hidden deployment to take advantage of specific terrain pieces and place individual squads in those. It makes you much more vulnerable but also gives you a better chance of landing an ambush on an unwary US unit.

dirk bracke
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 11:52 am
Location: Gent - Belgium

Re: surf's up sniper

Post by dirk bracke »

Hi Gavin,

We always deploy within a short distance from the blind (there is a previous post about that). Do you mean that you deploy anywhere on the map (except for the 12" along the edges)?

Cheers

Dirk

Archdukek
Posts: 5074
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: surf's up sniper

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Dirk,
I believe that Gavin is referring to the rule in 5.1.1 which allows a defender to use any appropriate piece of terrain to serve as a Hidden blind to disguise the presence of troops. So you can mark on a map or make a note beforehand that the VC has a squad hidden in a patch of elephant grass perhaps. If it remains stationary and does nothing you do not need to place a card blind in that position which would give information to the enemy that it is an area of possible interest, instead the area of terrain itself functions as the blind. If the troops are spotted or reveal themselves subsequently then they would be placed within the area of terrain just as you would when deploying off a normal blind.

The positions of hidden blinds need to be noted in advance. You can’t just suddenly declare that you are deploying somewhere on the table anymore than you can do that with a normal blind.

John

dirk bracke
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue May 12, 2020 11:52 am
Location: Gent - Belgium

Re: surf's up sniper

Post by dirk bracke »

Hi John,
I referred, to Gavin's phrase "the VC don't have to deploy their platoon together" which is not the way we play it.
Cheers
Dirk
(3rd try to get this on the forum :-()

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