Winter War PSC

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7dot62mm
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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by 7dot62mm » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:03 am

Novista wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:42 am
Just one question, why have you altered the range of the flamethrowers on the kht’s? Thanks.
I'm glad you like the campaigns :) In CoC all flamethrower tanks have a 36" range but since I had data on the real ranges I then just put them here. The range of a flamethrower depends on many factors including the composition of the fuel, the flamethrower's max pressure and the weather so of course for each system there are many different range estimates in different sources so one has to pick what one uses. But all agree that when it came to range the system used in the KhT-26 was inferior to that used in KhT-130. I also upped the price of flamethrowers by one point in order to make them less attractive. CoC is a very, very flamethrower-intensive game, to the point that it is the number one anti-tank weapon in the whole game... which does not correspond to the historical reality. In this campaign it doesn't matter so much as the side having the tanks have all the flamethrowers as well.

I'm working on a further update to the campaign. The big change in version 2.2 will be that the Finnish rifle section wil be able to split into two teams as I now feel I have enough proof that it did :) At present it seems the rest of the changes will just be the usual clarifications and minor corrections. The update should be ready in a couple of weeks, if someone needs it more ugrently please let ne know.

Novista
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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by Novista » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:04 pm

Hi 7dot, thanks for your response, I know very little about flamethrowers, it was more about the fact that you’ve extended their range in comparison to the early soviet CoC PDF’s, I was wondering whether you knew more, as the ranges in the t-26 Osprey book are 35-40 metres for the kht/ot-26 and 53 metres in the 130 (which I thought was a bit precise, but hey?), hence my questioning your calculation, I know the Soviets changed propellent and dispensing method, which would alter ranges and firing (?) rate. I couldn’t agree more about actual use and gamey play (suspect term, sorry) but as ladies and gentlemen I’m sure we can all agree to keeping things a little more historical or realistic. We can leave that to other systems and styles, hence the reason I dropped them. Anyroad I’m waffling. Thanks again.

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7dot62mm
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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by 7dot62mm » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:42 am

Novista wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:04 pm
it was more about the fact that you’ve extended their range in comparison to the early soviet CoC PDF’s
Aha, I wasn't aware that those PDFs have ranges for Soviet flamethrower tanks.
Novista wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:04 pm
ranges in the t-26 Osprey book are 35-40 metres for the kht/ot-26 and 53 metres in the 130 (which I thought was a bit precise, but hey?), hence my questioning your calculation,
Ok, looking at this again I see that the ranges are in 1/72 scale in the campaign stats. The Russians Kolomyjec and Swirin (Polish spellings) give 30 to 40 meters for the KhT-26 and c. 50 meters for KhT-130. So if CoC is in "15mm scale" and if that is equivalent to 1/100 scale then we're looking at 14" (35 meters) and 20", respectively. Would that be better? I'll amend the values to that in the upcoming version 2.2 update. Thanks!

Novista
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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by Novista » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:04 pm

The 39’ pdf has them down at 26= 12” and 130=18”, thank you for taking my opinion into account, but don’t go to any effort on my behalf. I was fact finding more than anything. Thanks again. Si.

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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by Tomm » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:43 am

Mind if I pinch your night fighting rules for something I'm working on?

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7dot62mm
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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by 7dot62mm » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:34 pm

Tomm wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:43 am
Mind if I pinch your night fighting rules for something I'm working on?
Not at all, go right ahead. If possible please credit https://meeples.wordpress.com/2016/03/1 ... f-command/ , Aksu Anttila, Petri V. and Eero Juhola for them in your work.

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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by Tomm » Wed Jan 08, 2020 4:25 pm

If it goes into the Lardies special for 2020 I shall do so!

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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by 7dot62mm » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:56 pm

I've again updated this campaign a bit. Changes in version 2.2:

* Changed the Finnish Rifle section so that it now splits into two teams. Upped the number of Entrenchments in various places in the Campaign Ladder to reflect this. Added also a sidebar to explain the rationale for the change.

* Added white-over rule to 7th Border Company Patrol Phase

* Updated slightly the weather determination rules in U1.6

* Updated Action table in U1.7 a bit.

* Changed rule where games taking fewer than one CoC Turn are shorter than one Hour (campaign turn) - now it is those taking fewer than three. Changed sections include U1.5.

* Changed a bit and (hopefully) clarified victory conditions for both campaigns in U1.10 and U1.11.

* Amended and improved the hero rules in section R1.4.2

* Changed rules R3 Smaller Forces and R4 Surprise a bit so that they are now compatible with each other.

* Added a clarification or two to the R13 Satchel Charge rules

* Added a few alternative Red maps to some of the Campaign 1 locations

* Changed support point information for location D. Jollonkorpi-Suursuo, changed the ditch in location B. Huhti.

* Changed the Soviet Deputy Company Commander into a Senior Leader

* Modified the width of the smoke screen produced by the 2 kg smoke pot

* Added a new stipulation to the medical orderlies in both Finnish and Soviet support lists

* Amended the Finnish hero alikersantti Soppa a bit

* Moved the KhT-130 flamethrower tank to list Eight (previously on list Seven)

* Added a terrain quick reference sheet

* Added official Winter of No Surrender force morale trackers. Accept no substitutes! 😉

* Added a set of unit templates (basically printable platoon organization sheets on which you can arrange your figures before the game) for the benefit of those players who like to use them. They're scaled for 20mm figures so if you are playing in 28mm you might want to scale them up a bit. They also act as quick reference sheets of sorts (indicating which dice the sub-units are activated on, their deployment and command ranges, and the number of command initiatives available as well as some National Characteristics). In addition, they can be used for tallying hand grenade usage by leaders.

The updated campaign is downloadable from here:
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~ejuhola/7.62/ ... index.html

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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by Tomm » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:40 pm

So, had a try with an adapted version of your night rules last night. Very interesting. Needed to get into the habit of leaving movement dice next to units for their noise targeting. I made the first turn pre moonrise (visibility 18") increasing out to 24" when the moon was out. A chain of command dice allowed the moon to be obscured or revealed.

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Re: Winter War PSC

Post by 7dot62mm » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:19 pm

Tomm wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:40 pm
I made the first turn pre moonrise (visibility 18") increasing out to 24" when the moon was out. A chain of command dice allowed the moon to be obscured or revealed.
Now that's ingenious! Well done. We're now playtesting the first campaign and it is dark and it did occur to me that in my rules night visibility is not dependent on the amount of clouds in the sky, though there is a way of determining cloud cover in the campaign :D I love the CoC dice obscuring or revelaing the moon at the right moment :) Would you mind if I pilfer (but credit) your rules in my next update?

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