Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

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Pvt weezle
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Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Pvt weezle » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:08 am

I'm back at playing COC after a year off to play SP2. After first two games of solo play I have only one question. When I deploy my Jr Ldr with his squad and he then uses both CI to invoke maschinengewehr can the rifle team also fire under the rule that deploying squads can fire? Or because a 3 was used to deploy they need to be activated by the Jr Ldr in order to fire? I believe they should be able to as Rich has mentioned many times in his videos, in this one case deploying from a JP represents last time units are in good order and under control.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Truscott Trotter » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:34 am

Deployment with a three is different to normal activation so yes the rifle team fires.

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Seret
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Seret » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:57 am

Rich mentioned something to that effect in one video yes, but there's nothing in the rules to suggest that it works that way. It depends what you want to take as gospel: the rulebook, or Rich's comment on that BoW video.

Personally we just stick with the rulebook and treat deployment the same as any other activation, but others have taken Rich's comment and run with it. Up to you.

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Greg Bradfield
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Greg Bradfield » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:39 am

My take:

As per rules maschinegewehr is invoked by using 2 or more CI and Leader needs to be attached to MG team. So JL deploys with section on 3 obviously he is thus attached to both teams and can invoke maschinegewehr with his 2 CI on the mg team, but now he has no CI left so how does he instruct the rifle team. Therefore rifle team can't fire. JL can throw his fire in with the mg team at no additional cost of CI's. IF a SL were to deploy in proximity of an already deployed section and invokes maschinegewehr on the mg team with 2 CI he can get the rifle team to fire with his last CI but then a 4 will be needed and the section would have to be on the battlefield already.

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Truscott Trotter » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:55 am

We played with rhat logic too .....until Rich clearly overruled it.

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Seret
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Seret » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:17 am

Rich often changes or improvises rules during games, that doesn't necessarily make them "official" changes. Whether you pick that tweak up and run with it in your own games is up to you. Personally I think this one introduces an inconsistency into the game that doesn't really improve things or fix an issue, so I'll pass.

I agree with Greg, playing this one as per the rulebook makes more sense and is more consistent.

JimLeCat
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by JimLeCat » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:37 am

This one isn't a change of any kind, it's always been there.

Remember that the rulebook does specifically say, at the very end of 4.3.1, that units may fire when deploying. This is independent of what dice they deployed on. So, both teams may fire whether or not the JL spends CI activating them. Deploying on a 3, the JL can *also* spend his CI, so yes he can use both CI on one team and the other will still fire.

I wouldn't allow the fire, of course, if the JL ordered an activity which was contrary to firing, such as going Tactical or on Overwatch.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Jim

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by john de terre neuve » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:48 am

I agree with Jim, units deploying can fire. Units deploying with a JL have 2 CI which he can use however he likes. I see no contradiction here.

John

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Pvt weezle
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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by Pvt weezle » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:56 pm

thanks for quick responses gentlemen. Very thoughtful comments by everyone. I'm going with, they can fire. Going with my original thought that follows TT Jim and John's reasoning.

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Re: Deploying squad with Jr. Ldr

Post by andyskinner » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:13 pm

The sentence mentioned from 4.3.1 is:
"Troops deploying onto the table may not move in the current phase, but may fire at full effect."

I could see you treating it as saying they may fire if enabled to do so. They aren't prevented from firing. A 3 deploys a leader who brings along his squad and uses CI for things, and if he wants them to fire, he may use a CI for that. On a 2, the squad is being deployed and brings along its leader, and they may fire because they were deployed. Saying the troops may fire at full effect doesn't allow them to do so when put in Tactical. The leader may not have them move, but may have them fire.

I would have thought this was how the sentence was intended, until the video. And I do think there is a bit of a contradiction. Just that deploying could have been a bit more like activating. Which way would I rather have it? Allowing them to fire plus the CI to be spent does give the opportunity for some crushing ambushes, and adds some danger to attacking enemy positions. So probably worth it. :)

andy
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