Polish tanker list for September 1939 campaign

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Contrarius
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:35 pm

Polish tanker list for September 1939 campaign

Post by Contrarius » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:42 pm

I know Rich has indicated that he's planning a free 1939 supplement for WAT, but since Poland and Germany are the only two nations that I can field level 1 tanks for, can anyone suggest tanker lists for Polish armour?

In particular:

TKS with 20mm autocannon
Vickers E with stubby 47mm (main tank of the famous Black Brigade)
7TP
7TP uparmoured 1939

At a pinch I guess you could add:
R-17 (even the Poles considered these obsolete, most were worn out by years of training use, and only a few fought in 1939, either on railway trailers or as static city defences)
R-35 (quite a few of these were about to be deployed in Poland, seem to recall something about three of them taking part in a minor action, but I forget the details)

Tanks that probably don't need adding:
TKD (tank destroyer version of the TKS, which existed only in prototype and is unlikely to have seen action)
4TP (again a prototype not thought to have seen action)
9TP (a heavier brother of the 7TP; photos of one or possibly two examples are known from a 1939 parade, but it's not clear that these were anything other than prototypes)
Hotchkiss H-35 (three tanks iirc arrived from France for trials, not clear if they were ever deployed)

I imagine the 7TP, at least in its upgraded 1939 configuration, might just qualify for lvl 2; it was certainly superior to the Panzer II C, but that's not saying very much.

Contrarius
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:35 pm

Re: Polish tanker list for September 1939 campaign

Post by Contrarius » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:45 pm

On cogitating about this a bit more, I think for 1939 it might be useful to split lvl 1 into two parts, which for convenience might be labelled level 1a and 1b.

Level 1a would contain things like the Panzer II ausf a and ausf b (both with small letters, both nominally prototypes but produced in fairly large runs and deployed to Poland ) and perhaps the Panzer III A, again a prototype of which 10 were built (from memory) but which definitely served in Poland. For the Poles it would include the TKS and the Vickers E.

Level 1b would include the improved, production versions of the lvl 1a tanks and the early models of the Czech tanks. And for the Poles, the 7TP, the elite of the tank force, which was regarded as a definite promotion for Vickers and TKS crews.

Pending rules that allow HMGs to penetrate low grade armour you might also add a level 0, which would include the Panzer I, the standard TKS, the TK-3 and the MG-armed Vickers and 7TP.

Just a thought...

gebhk
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:21 am

Re: Polish tanker list for September 1939 campaign

Post by gebhk » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:11 pm

Hi Contrarius.

Sorry, bit late for the party, but just a few minor whatnots:

TKD. There were 4 of these made on a widened TK3 chassis with reinforced suspension. They were, allegedly (according to some who provide no evidence), used in the defence of Warsaw. There is a German photo extant which shows one abandoned by the roadside. However, since they were unarmoured, using these in combat would have been a tad hairy. Not to mention the whole '1 man turret' thing.

TK-SD. Don't forget this chap as he is just too cute for words. Defo both prototypes used (and lost) in combat by 10BK. It would appear that by 1939 they had a crew of 5 (yes really!) and aside from a few ready rounds, the ammo was carried in a trailer. The two vehicles differed somewhat in silhouette but both sported the 37mm wz 36 AT gun,

Improved 7TP/9TP. This is one and the same thing. The '9TP' was a monicker invented after the war by armour historians. There is little to no evidence that any were produced before the war. If any were made during the war as part of the final batch completed they would have been used in the defence of Warsaw.

R35. Basically a battalion was bought (and received) complete from the French with some support vehicles, spare parts and other gear. The 'Struktury WP 1939' website gives very detailed organisational charts for this battalion. There were 39 combat vehicles and another 6 spares for a total of 45.

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