Big WaT

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SteveC
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Big WaT

Post by SteveC »

We tend to play with troop size commands on a large table - typically 8' x 6' and having got our first club game in since lock down, the question was asked about any house rules others may use to give some form of co-coordinating role to the troop commanders (like JLs get in CoC for instance). As usual, the Firefly was almost immobile and never got a shot off, let alone even the slightest sniff of an enemy vehicle such that even my Churchill ARV was further forward when time was called! (ARV was in play as a means of countering a knocked out tank blocking the bridge that the allies had to get over to win the game)

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has experimented with giving some extra dice to the troop commander that could be issued to other members of the troop in the form of (additional) move dice (subject to the staying within the limitations of numbers of moves a turn a vehicle can make)
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Big WaT

Post by Truscott Trotter »

I have thought about this too.
Yes it seems silly when tanks just sit there not moving.
Could use something like the SL (troop commander) in LOS and 12" or radio contact allows the receiving tank to change 1 dice maybe at a cost to the SL- ie he loses one dice cos his attention is not fully on his own tank?
SteveC
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Re: Big WaT

Post by SteveC »

I had sketched out a few thoughts and one was to disallow any use of the bonus dice if the troop commander's vehicle was engaging the enemy but then again if it had been previously spotted, then the gunner and loader would be the ones 'distracted', leaving the commander to either look for the next target or check where the rest of the troop were and get them to supporting positions or on a flanking track.

If the troop commander was buttoned up, then effective management of the other members of the troop would be much harder. Maybe reduce the extra dice to 1 as refection of this.

Not keen on the transfer of dice idea - think the couple of extra dice has more traction. A 1 in 3 chance of getting a usable dice to influence the maneuvering of the other troop members won't distort things toooo much.
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Nick
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Re: Big WaT

Post by Nick »

Evening all,
Interesting topic. I tried some ideas on this with my son during lockdown utilising dice. Out tests involved a troop commander having a certain number of dice depending on his level and his comms network, so a good commander with a good comms network would get more dice (say 3 or 4) than a poor commander with a poor network (say 0 or 1). He rolls this hand of dice at the start of the round and is able to award these dice to tanks in his platoon according to his wishes - and can do this after each tank has rolled. Thus if the CO has a 1 up his sleeve in his leadership pot he can allocate it to a particular tank. Max allocation of one dice per tank, use them or lose them. The CO loses a dice from this pot (of his choice) each time he suffers a permanent damage to his tank. It made for some interesting outcomes but needs further work.

Nick

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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Big WaT

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Interesting stuff indeed Nick.
I think you need to look at what it is you are trying to represent by the commanders input.
E.g.
Does he motivate them?

Does he alert them to dangers/opportunities that may have been passed to him by other troop members?

Does he simply change their orders? In which case changing rather than adding dice may be appropriate.

Something else?

All of the above?
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Nick
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Re: Big WaT

Post by Nick »

All the above." What have our leaders ever done for us?"

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Nick
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Re: Big WaT

Post by Nick »

WaT is a simple game. A complex mechanism wouldn't fit.

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SteveC
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Re: Big WaT

Post by SteveC »

I'd not thought about any ability variables but clearly having no radio like many early war tanks (or the Russians below company commander) limits what can be done to the likes of frantic hand waving/gesturing towards a subordinate's vehicle (assuming it's in sight and not closed down) or dismounting and running over to try to confer on a face to face basis - potential for some very Monty Python-esk outcomes (or Brian Rix style farces for those of us with long memories)!

WaT is a simple game system, so any means of providing some basic command & control for troop commanders needs to follow the KISS principle. Like the idea of taking away a die for any permanent damage taken in the move but I think I'd be inclined to expand it to cover any hit as that would distract his attention. In my original thoughts, the only results that the command dice could get and be awarded would be a '1' or a '6' (which would be immediately changed to a drive die).

There is some scope with helping with spotting a target already found by the troop commander. We tried something like that with an American Tank Destroyer section, using the M20 as a recce team and dismounting in the lee of cover to spot for hostiles for the pair of Hellcats I was using. Didn't keep my notes on how we covered that situation unfortunately. I think we allowed the TD to get an extra die conversion option if it needed it if the Recce group had spotted a target and had given it the bearing/general location.
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Truscott Trotter
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Re: Big WaT

Post by Truscott Trotter »

Nick wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:50 pm WaT is a simple game. A complex mechanism wouldn't fit.
I agree Nick a big part of WaT's appeal is the deceptively simple rule mechanisms.

The idea of a random hand of dice for the Troops leader fits in with the Lardie ethos - but am not sure if it is not a bit too random?

E.g. if he wanted all his troops to leave the cover and cross the open ground would this mechanism allow this most/all of the time?
I think even if all the tanks or 1-3 move dice they would all end up at different speeds but if there were no ones to add - you end up with all the section waiting?
OTOH you don't want him to order them all to fire everytime.
I would like to playtest your method above with ay the ability to allow 1 or 2vehicles to change or even reroll an order dice?
SteveC
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Re: Big WaT

Post by SteveC »

Given that every move, each vehicle gets to roll for initiative (we use a D20, adding 3 for any wild dice retained from last move) there is no guarantee that the troop leader will be the first to go of his command.

Any extra dice he rolls will need to be limited in their distribution to vehicles yet to move, so being able to chivy up a laggard by passing over an extra drive die that allows that vehicle to convert another die to that use won't always be possible. I'd always envisaged that the number of extra or 'command' dice would be 2, reducing by 1 if buttoned up and taking Nick's ideas into account, reducing by 1 if the troop commander had taken any damage or made a forced move due to the equal hits/saves outcome provision that move prior to him rolling his dice. So it would be possible that he'd have no command dice to roll if things were going badly - self preservation being the immediate priority.

Helping an eligible troop vehicle to acquire a target already spotted by the commander fits in with general concept and part of what one would reasonably expect to happen in group environment. If any of the command dice are aim, shoot or reload dice, then they would be wasted (as would throwing the extra dice if the troop leader was the last to go of that command!!)

The overall impact would be modest but it would add some modest sense of the tanks being part of a collective group rather than a number of disparate individuals.
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