Charges again

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m1kel
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:02 am

Charges again

Post by m1kel »

Hi,

When does a charging unit taking casualties from defensive fire need to take a discipline test? The rules seem to mention that it may need to but I don’t see it stated specifically.

A charging cavalry unit against an infantry unit and wins with a charge on result. The infantry unit is ridden down and removed, the cavalry take one casualty. The infantry unit had one support to the flank and one to the rear. These must now retire. I presume they don’t retire until after the charge on procedure because the cavalry unit can easily contact the rear infantry support. If so the retiring infantry doesn’t seem to have any detrimental factor applied given that it is forced to retire.

How should this be played?
Thanks,
Mike

Archdukek
Posts: 5190
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Charges again

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Mike,
It depends on how successful the fire was. If you get a DT result on the fire casualty table then you test, if not you don't. So rolling a 9+ on the Standard Volley line will result in a test.

As to the charge situation you describe, I would say that the supports would retire before the cavalry charge on as they would start to fall back when they see the main unit disintegrate. So the cavalry would be hitting them Unformed and as part of a Faltering Brigade since the main unit routing triggered that change in status immediately. That's a difference of -3 for starters.

John

thomalley
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:40 pm
Location: Nags Head, NC

Re: Charges again

Post by thomalley »

When would supports roll to form square?

m1kel
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:02 am

Re: Charges again

Post by m1kel »

John,
Thanks for that. Got it into my head it was doing something different for casualties during charge instead of normal firing results.
Still if the infantry get to retire first then there is little chance of cavalry Charging On making contact with anyone..so I’m wondering if they are marked unformed and brigade faltering but don’t move until the movement phase.
Mike

m1kel
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:02 am

Re: Charges again

Post by m1kel »

Thomalley,
I Dont think any of the supports would have time to firm square since they weren’t the target of the initial charge and are dealing with cavalry breaking through the initial contact.
Mike

Archdukek
Posts: 5190
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Charges again

Post by Archdukek »

Mike,
Certainly there is a possibility that the cavalry may not reach the immediate supports. However, to me the definition of the "Ridden Down" result in paragraph 13 on page 49 is quite clear: "Any supports Retire." There is no qualification and it is that result which applies to and is relevant to the defeated infantry.

Thom,
The supports are obliged to Retire by virtue of paragraph 13 on page 49 as I say above, they do not have any option to Form Square.

As a consequence the enemy infantry brigade is likely to find itself seriously disrupted and vulnerable even if the successful cavalry aren't able to contact any other unit. Something to consider and a good reason to form square in advance before receiving a cavalry charge. Especially if the cavalry have other supports of their own to exploit the disruption next turn.

John

m1kel
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:02 am

Re: Charges again

Post by m1kel »

Thanks John...

Mike

Fairfax
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 7:36 am
Location: Cheshire UK

Re: Charges again

Post by Fairfax »

Hi Chaps

Yesterday I had a similar situation when my opponent and I were trying a run through the rules after a long break.

I had a foot artillery battery limbered on the right side of my brigade which was advancing. I had an Infantry battalion to the left of them, one following the guns and another in echelon to their rear right. Also there was another brigade to the right.

A unit of KGL Hussars charged my foot artillery which doesn't get anything beyond a "disperse" and so the cavalry took 1 casualty and opted to charge on, receiving a 21" move!

The Hussars then charged the column to the left of the guns which failed to score any hits in defensive fire and was then smashed in melee. Not satisfied with this and having taken another casualty the cavalry the went on to charge the column directly behind the guns and again smashed the infantry who failed to score shooting hits and lost the melee.

We had to stop at that point for lack of time, but it struck me as odd that a light cavalry unit could charge into the very centre of the French battle line and cause such mayhem.

Admittedly all the French units concerned were within about 3" of each other. (28mm figs)
Were we following the rules properly and was it my fault for keeping my columns so close together and the artillery to far forward?

I must admit I had thought the artillery could evade, but that only applies to Horse not foot.

Observations from those with more experience than me would be appreciated.
Cheers
Keith :oops:

Archdukek
Posts: 5190
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Charges again

Post by Archdukek »

Hi Keith,
Can I ask did you follow through the full charge procedure in each case before moving to Melee? An infantry unit in column gets a +2 modifier to its Charge Procedure dice which usually helps them resist light cavalry, albeit in this case you would have the Charging On! bonus.

On the other hand maybe the infantry were just surprised and panicked by the audacity of the KGL Hussars. After all they were crack troops with an outstanding reputation. :)

John

IanKH
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:38 am

Re: Charges again

Post by IanKH »

I was also under the impression that foot artillery could evade and I can see where this gets confusing. Page 45 b.V: Evade. Only skirmishers, Cossacks and limbered artillery may evade. There's no reference to horse or foot artillery. But on p.50 it states horse artillery only.

A bit confusing and I know that I've made this mistake.

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