ARTILLERY and other things

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DANIDAVOUT
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:54 pm

ARTILLERY and other things

Post by DANIDAVOUT » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:23 pm

New in the rules, but with questions about more detailed napoleonic features:
British line have superior volley, but portuguese line not? -both are in two files.
Heavy Cavalry in melee have +2cd, so Battle cavalry must have +1cd, not?
Artilley Batteries:
1. EIGHT gun battery, is very important in historic battles have one casualty dice (hit in four or more):
3-4lb +1d4
6lb +1d6
8-9lb +1d8
12lb +1d12
2.- CANISTER FIRE: in your other rules, the artillery have plus firing canister in charges:
- 3-4lb +1d4
6lb +1d6
8-9lb +1d8
12lb +1d12
3.- CANISTER FIRE: there is no problem with fire canister with friendly units in zone of fire?
BOUNCE THROUG: there is no difference in caliber or type of target?

DCRBrown
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: ARTILLERY and other things

Post by DCRBrown » Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:17 pm

DD,

British line have superior volley, but Portuguese line not? -both are in two files.

Yes they were in two ranks but the British were generally considerably better trained and adopted the peninsular method of firing whereas, I suspect, the Portuguese did not. Also the French gained considerably more success against Portuguese troops than British, which might suggest their fire was not as effective as British.

Heavy Cavalry in melee have +2cd, so Battle cavalry must have +1cd, not?
Nope - the 2CD creates a clear distinction between well mounted heavy cavalry and cavalry of the line.

CANISTER FIRE: there is no problem with fire canister with friendly units in zone of fire?
Batteries fire straight ahead, so canister (or shot) cannot be fired if friendly troops are in front of the battery.

BOUNCE THROUGH: there is no difference in calibre or type of target?
Absolutely right - the bounce-through rule is designed to be quick and simple to execute. I didn't really want another set of modifiers, tables etc, for what is a fairly secondary event.

Hope that helps.

DB

DANIDAVOUT
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:54 pm

Re: ARTILLERY and other things

Post by DANIDAVOUT » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:57 pm

CANISTER FIRE: Batteries fire straight ahead??? not 45º?

CANISTER FIRE: there is no modifiers for guns firing canister fire?

thanks

Archdukek
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Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: ARTILLERY and other things

Post by Archdukek » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:39 pm

There is no special restriction on the firing arc of a battery firing canister, it follows the normal rules (see page 73 for an explanation of the generous firing arc). If the battery is part of a steady brigade it will be able to fire canister on a target unit within a 45' arc subject to the firing priorities. If the brigade is hesitant then the battery must fire straight ahead.

No there is no special modifier for firing canister, it's built into the firing effects table. For the same dice roll firing at close or canister range is likely to result in more casualties on the target unit and a much greater likelihood of triggering a Discipline Test than when firing at effective range.
(If you compare the relevant two lines on the Firing Effects Table on page 77 you will see that firing at canister at close range is roughly equivalent to adding +2 to the dice roll on the effective line.)

John

nikjen66
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Location: Cambridge UK

Re: ARTILLERY and other things

Post by nikjen66 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:59 am

Bit confused here. Dont have my rules with me so might have missed this.

Question was about danger zones for canister fire?

King Dave says that batteries fire straight ahead and anything to their front will prevent fire.
Archduke says that batteries have 45 degree arc but fails to mention danger zones.

I am aware of restrictions for hesitant brigades, but the question was are there danger zones for canister fire, as in every other Napoleonic rule set I've played?

Cheers
Nick

DCRBrown
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: ARTILLERY and other things

Post by DCRBrown » Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:53 am

N,

but the question are there danger zones for canister fire, as in every other Napoleonic rule set I've played?

There is no danger zone for canister other than straight ahead. You are right that many rules do have a canister cone, even GdeB! However GdA was specifically designed not to present gamers with another regurgitation of exactly the same accepted Napoleonic wargame norms but to deliver something different, and that includes canister arcs. I'm not convinced that the "spread" of canister was that great or so significant that suddenly a battery falls silent due to a friendly unit encroaching upon say a 30 degree spread in front of the battery. I suspect most batteries simply fired straight ahead and the spread of canister would not be that great at the far end of the discharge.

I'd ask you to look at historical accounts and see if you can recall anyone or any account that mentions canister arcs or similar, e.g. "General Lamb declined to advance the 29th as he feared he would cross into the canister arc of the Royal Artillery battery firing across the steam", or such like?

I know some gamers will say canister is like a shot gun - which it is but spread depends upon the ammunition used and range. Firing a shotgun round with say 9 "pellets" (buckshot) does not spread massively at close ranges, (the equivalent of artillery heavy canister), obviously birdshot spreads more but the artillery equivalent would only be using this at very close ranges. There are also some good videos of various cannon firing canister - yes there's a spread but even at extreme canister range this seems rarely to be more that about 150 yards - not much more that the width of our wargame batteries.

So there you go, I've gone against the wargame "norm" and let canister fire straight ahead but within the confines of the battery frontage. Furthermore, and perhaps just as importantly, it also aids game play by reducing the need for canister templates and the usual "discussions" about who is or is not a few mm's in the canister zone! ;)

Hope that helps.

DB

Archdukek
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Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: ARTILLERY and other things

Post by Archdukek » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:07 am

Sorry DB, now I'm confused.
Are you saying that the battery fires canister straight ahead against targets within its normal 45' arc or is it straight ahead as in the limitation on a hesitant brigade?

I think it's the former, basically the canister zone is a rectangle the width of the battery frontage out to the limit of close range which can be used against any enemy unit within a 45' arc.

I agree with you about the idea of a canister danger zone as being something of a Wargaming myth. We tend to forget that we are modelling a battery firing rather than an individual gun. Yes there is some spread from canister, but if you were to plot it out for 6-8 guns evenly spread across the battery frontage you will find that the zones from each individual gun overlap with each other to some degree making it more dangerous approaching the centre of the battery position, but with marginal leakage to either side.

Someone published a diagram of this once, but I can't remember where. However, using the figures quoted by Mark Adkins for canister spread in his Waterloo Companion page 263, at 300m the diameter of spread would be around 30m. Given that the guns would be deployed anything from 10-20m apart you can see that the canister would cover the gaps between the guns but spread little beyond the frontage.

John

DCRBrown
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:04 pm

Re: ARTILLERY and other things

Post by DCRBrown » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:27 pm

Sorry John, yes its - canister zone is a rectangle the width of the battery frontage out to the limit of close range which can be used against any enemy unit within a 45' arc.

DB

thomalley
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Location: Nags Head, NC

Re: ARTILLERY and other things

Post by thomalley » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:10 pm

Can't remember where now, somewhere lost is my history, I have read of a couple of incidences where attacking infantry had gotten inside the canister spread and had avoided heavy casualties. But the die roll allows for things like this.

nikjen66
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:20 pm
Location: Cambridge UK

Re: ARTILLERY and other things

Post by nikjen66 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:17 pm

Thanks all for clearing that up.

It makes sense that a battery would need a clear LOS to its target, especially when using canister.

Dave I'm no expert on gunnery or danger zones so very happy for you to break the norm.

Excellent rules, we love them.

Nick

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