Charging a unit to the flank

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nikjen66
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:20 pm
Location: Cambridge UK

Charging a unit to the flank

Post by nikjen66 »

We were playing a game at the weekend where an interesting situation arose.

We were playing the La Rothiere France scenario and the unit of Garde d,Honneur has charged a Russian Horse battery and destroyed it in melee. The following turn the unit charged a unit of Russian Dragoons that was unformed , faltering/hesitant and stepping back and destroyed this. I only mention the above cos it was brilliant!

But, this then left the French light cavalry unit with several units of Cossacks who had neatly lined themselves up to attack them in the flank in the next turn. The nearest unit of Cossacks was about 15cms (we play 15mm) from the right flank of the French and at right angles to it facing the French flank in double line.

In the next turn the French won the initiative and the French cavalry, who were active and with Glory (obviously) and general attached declared a charge on the pesky Cossacks.

Now, the question is could the French charge? The only way for them to get into contact was to wheelthe full 10cms, as permitted, at the beginning of the charge and then move straight ahead which gave a good contact on the right front of the Cossacks. I didn’t believe this was an issue as there is no need for chargers to charge directly ahead or be able to see a unit they are charging it it’s within 15cms but, my opponents didn’t think this was right.

As it was we played it with the charge against the Cossacks going in and the light cavalry winning. The next round another unit of Cossacks did manage to charge in but they lost too! At this point lucky dice saved the French as the light cavalry were on 11 hits!! :shock: :shock:

Did we do this right?

bellebsc
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:57 am

Re: Charging a unit to the flank

Post by bellebsc »

I'd say absolutely right.

Wheeled using your bonus move ✔

Charged percinticulaler to your font✔

No line of sight but within 15cm of target ✔


Sounds like a glorious legal charge to me.

Ricky

Cearapeter
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Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:42 pm

Re: Charging a unit to the flank

Post by Cearapeter »

Good Evening Everyone

Am I missing something here. If as you say your cavalry 'charged and destroyed a Russian Horse Artillery battery in melee' - the following turn it then charged ......

My understanding is any unit having fought a melee is unformed and must therefore reform prior to making another charge unless it achieved a 'Victory/Charge on' result. Is that what happened?

CP

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DCRBrown
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Re: Charging a unit to the flank

Post by DCRBrown »

C,

If you look at Melee results - if cavalry rout their opponents they remain formed, so may carry out a new charge next turn. So if the glorious Garde d'Honneur routed the Russian Dragoons then they remain formed.

Hope that helps.

DB

nikjen66
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:20 pm
Location: Cambridge UK

Re: Charging a unit to the flank

Post by nikjen66 »

That’s precisely it Dave. Obviously having the word ‘Garde’ in their unit designation encouraged the line campaign cavalry unit to feel they were a lot better than they were! Lucky dice and circumstance probably had more to do with it though!!

Don’t want to say too much as I know one of my opponents from Sunday reads this forum but the Guard Lancers did even better against a fresh Austrian Infantry Brigade, taking it out of the game in a turn, but again got lucky with the dice. :twisted: :twisted:

Anythingbuta1
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Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: Charging a unit to the flank

Post by Anythingbuta1 »

Less said about the whole game the better, French Guard cav, ran amok routing and destroying units with impunity.
No allied cav to speak of for several moves , by the time they turned up it was all over.
The charge mentioned didn't sit right with our side, the unit is facing in a different direction and by essentially rotating 90 degrees on the spot is able to contact one end of our line.
Our thoughts where that to charge something, you should be facing in their general direction, with some wheel , not a completely different direction, essentially 90 degrees to their original facing.
Even if its allowed within the rules , it didn't sit right that a unit of cav on another units flank would sit passively whilst , the unit 50 yards to its front performed an extremely complex manouver without intervening.
Anyway didn't affect the outcome, we where well and truly battered.

nikjen66
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:20 pm
Location: Cambridge UK

Re: Charging a unit to the flank

Post by nikjen66 »

Hi Dave or John,

Can you clear up whether the move we made was correct? That is to wheel 10cms which, using 15mm figures in column (frontage of 80mm), was nearly a 90 degree turn to the units right making it almost parallel in frontage to the stinky Cossacks?

Archdukek
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Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Charging a unit to the flank

Post by Archdukek »

Only DB can give you a definitive answer on the rules, but for what it’s worth I would agree with Ricky that from your description this would seem to be a legal charge. It does however critically depend on the relative position of the two units at the point that the charge is declared.

The rules specifically permit cavalry to charge even when Flanked (page 39).
The target unit’s location is within 15cm and therefore known to the chargers ( 15, p 41).
Cavalry is allowed to conduct a wheel of 10cm before it must move directly ahead to contact.

So in principle you could make a charge if the positioning of the units is correct.
However, to make a wheel of 90’ requires a move of 1.5x a unit’s frontage. (1.507x to be exact.) So if the column had a frontage of 8 cm if would need a move of 12cm to wheel 90’. With only a 10cm charge bonus it could wheel a maximum of 75’. If that was enough to allow it to move straight forwards into contact then the charge was legal in my view.

I do have sympathy with Anythingbuta1, though I would point out that a distance of 15cm is actually 150 yards away not 50. :)

To avoid being caught by nimble French cavalry who have seized the local initiative, you need to make sure that your flanking unit is entirely behind a line extending the enemy’s front. That way a 10cm wheel won’t be enough to let those perfidious French devils catch you. ;)

John

nikjen66
Posts: 128
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:20 pm
Location: Cambridge UK

Re: Charging a unit to the flank

Post by nikjen66 »

Cheers John.

I also felt sorry, for about a nanosecond!!! But, we all know that what goes around comes around.😬

We do love these rules though! So bloody frustrating but brilliant once you’ve calmed down and applied a bit thought about outcomes which seem to make no sense. Reading a bit of Nafziger gives a clear picture of the total chaos of Napoleonic battles.

Anythingbuta1
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: Charging a unit to the flank

Post by Anythingbuta1 »

I have calmed down and it seems the consensus is that its legal within the rules, but it I still don't like it.
Its a regiment of cav, not 4 chaps on ponies.
I don't have the rules at work but isn't there something about aiming at the centre of the unit being charged.

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