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After combat in BUA

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:14 pm
by nikjen66
Quick question for the experts.

After a single round of combat where the attacker is either defeated outright, or retires after a draw, are both sides unformed, including the defender? Or as the defender was already a formed garrison does he remain so?

Cheers

Nick

Re: After combat in BUA

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:28 pm
by bigduke1327
Nick,

It depends on what the melee outcome was. (page 89)

There are
1) Take the Ground! (if infantry win by 2 or more casualties) which says
Attackers occupying a BUA or Strongpoint are also Unformed
, which to me infers that Defenders that win this way don't become Unformed.

2) Or you have a draw, or one side winning by 1, which in covered on page 90
Draw – BUA or Strongpoint Melee. In the event of a first round draw, the defending unit/s may decide whether to Fight On or accept a Retire result. All units on one side must take the same option. If the defender decides to Fight On, the attacker then has the same option to either Fight On or Retire. If both sides Fight On, they may reinforce with any supporting units. If the opponent Retires, then your units become Unformed. In the event of a second round Melee draw, the attackers will Retire.
So it depends on if the Defenders won well enough (by 2 more casualties) in the first round, then they stay formed, or if not they (as well as the Attackers) go Unformed.

That's how I read it anyway.

Mart

Re: After combat in BUA

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:48 pm
by wireme61
In the FAQ Video around 37 minutes in is an example of a BUA Melee.
The French as the attacker lost 5 casualties to the defending Austrians losing 1 casualty in the first round of Melee. The French having lost by 4 casualties retreat and he said "the Austrians take their one casualty and because they fought a round of Melee go unformed". Even though the Austrians won by 4 casualties. Although I did not see anything stating the defender goes unformed if they win by (2+ casualties "Take the Ground") in a BUA Melee. It only says the "Attackers occupying a BUA or Strongpoint are also unformed".
Maybe I am missing something.

Mark

Re: After combat in BUA

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:00 pm
by bigduke1327
Mark,

My first instinct was the same, they've fought a round of melee so they must be unformed, but when I consulted the melee results table I noticed there are two different results :
Take the Ground
and
Take the Ground Unformed (inferring to me that the first one means Take the Ground (formed))

Mart

Re: After combat in BUA

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:43 pm
by wireme61
Yes I agree there does not seem to be anything that states the defender is unformed except in the FAQ video.
Maybe I am missing something that has been stated previously. Interesting question.

Mark

Re: After combat in BUA

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:56 pm
by Archdukek
I would agree with Mart. If the defender wins well enough, that is by 2+ casualties, then they remain formed.
Unless it says something else in the FAQ which I haven't checked, then I'd assume DB made an error in the video. It's easily done in the midst of a game.

John