Demoralisation levels

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wireme61
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:12 pm

Re: Demoralisation levels

Post by wireme61 »

That is a tactic I had not considered. It does seem awfully gamey to allow a brigade to keep adding to the skirmish screen with battalions at 8+ casualties to avoid demoralization. I think taking a discipline test is worth trying. I had not considered that but seems a logical fix to a gamey situation.
Mark

de-pulley
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Demoralisation levels

Post by de-pulley »

Yes thank you I agree I thought it was a fair tactic and within the confines of "gentlemanly conduct"
the paragraph
"I don't have any real issues with this tactic, especially as the brigade is becoming less and less effective and also requires an ADC tasking every time just to keep topping up the skirmishers. Furthermore the brigade's ability to hold its ground when virtually all its units are skirmishers becomes limited to say the least."
sums it all up really , as the umpire i didnt have a problem with this tactic , and if i was the British player i would have attacked the brigade , because as you say its ability to hold its ground would diminish I dont like changing rules , or adding house rules , after all there is nothing to stop the British player doing the same , however i did feel as the umpire "honour bound" to check that there was not a ruling somewhere , that would have said in these circumstances , they are counted towards the Demoralisation levels, thank you for your attention and comments everyone , we all enjoy this game immensely , and this forum is a great asset
Mark

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vlad48
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Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Demoralisation levels

Post by vlad48 »

Very interesting discussion - I was not aware how historically the French extensively deployed additional battalions into skirmish lines as David described. Up until now I have just imposed limits on how many battalions can be "skirmishized" in a game, with higher numbers for French or later Prussians but with greater restrictions on Russians and Austrians.
David's suggestion of a white-knuckle DT roll with a dispersal at stake would certainly make for some high-drama dicing.

de-pulley
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Demoralisation levels

Post by de-pulley »

I was not intending to use Daves idea of a Discipline Test before we allow the tactic , that in my opinion would put unfair restraints on the use of a perfectly legitimate tactic , and if any one is in doubt about it or thinking it was "Gamey" I refer you to, Paddy Griffiths book on "French Napoleonic infantry tactics 1792-1815" published by Osprey , in which this tactic is written about at length. One of the leading advocates of this tactic and skirmishing in general was General Count Philippe-Guillaume Duhesme who sadly was killed at Plancenoit in 1815
mark

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vlad48
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Location: Vancouver, BC

Re: Demoralisation levels

Post by vlad48 »

De-pulley,
With your knowledge of Napoleonic Infantry tactics you probably have every right to take umbrage at the tactics discussed being called "gamey" in your own games. If that works - and reflects history - by all means do it. But there are other things to consider - game length and play balance. Unless we can leave a game "setup" in progress to finish another day, we need to finish games in 3-4 hours - so losing units helps get games resolved. The rules are set up to do that.
There's also the gameplay balance and fun factor that if a game features an army that used lots of skirmishers (French) against an army that did not (Russians, say) - it will be more frustrating to play the Russians (although, yes, they have some advantages such as bigger batteries or any the scenario provides). With those factors in mind I could see imposing reasonable limits on how often different armies can deploy skirmishers but, of course, local clubs should do as they choose.

de-pulley
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Demoralisation levels

Post by de-pulley »

we are fortunate that we can leave our games set up , and to be honest the few times the French player has tried this tactic , events have overtaken him , elsewhere on the table , so, so far , he has only had the chance to throw in two battalions , to reinforce his screen, and using the whole brigade has not , yet, been a problem , and from what we have played of the game i dont think it will, we find that there are other pressing problems that need the ADCs more urgently so its not a problem but i voiced the question just in case , as i said he always avoids having a straight up shoot out with the British infantry because of their firepower , he likes to get at least four casualties on them if not more, or gets them to move, before he moves in to shoot it out. I too have a Russian army and use it frequently
I can assure you I havent taken umbrage , to the comments Im sorry if it appeared that way ,
DP

Archdukek
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Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Demoralisation levels

Post by Archdukek »

Generally I think the French do best when they follow the historical tactics of softening up the opponent's units with a combination of Skirmisher and artillery fire before storming in with their columns. Going toe to toe in a firefight with British units in line will often end painfully.

John

de-pulley
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:32 pm

Re: Demoralisation levels

Post by de-pulley »

I agree and thats what we have found, and why we like to use lots of skirmishers, and how, as the French we like to play, its the old judo adage ,"nullify his strengths, exploit his weakness" going toe to toe in a firefight with the British, was how we tried when we first played , and it certainly ended in tears , we learnt a healthy respect for that superior fire power table.
DP

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