Flank or not Flank

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bellebsc
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Flank or not Flank

Post by bellebsc » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:27 pm

Hi again.

So a cavalry unit starts out 9cm away to charge an enemy cavalry unit in the flank. It moves up to the 3cm mark and as he started out with 9cm then the unit being charged can wheel upto half his move. Does this still count as the enemy cavalry being originally charged in the flank for its moral?

Thanks
R

Archdukek
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Re: Flank or not Flank

Post by Archdukek » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:53 pm

I would say no. The definition of Charged in flank or rear in the table on page 47 says this is determined at the 5cm [3"] point. By the time the charging cavalry had reached that point in your example, the enemy would presumably have completed their wheel and would no longer be presenting a flank.
Had the charging cavalry begun their move within 15cm [9"] then the defenders would be unable to react in time and would still be presenting a flank when the attackers reach the 5cm [3"] point.

John

bellebsc
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Re: Flank or not Flank

Post by bellebsc » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:24 am

I would agree but it wasn't clear as it's not really covered in the rules such as a suggestion as " if a unit turns to face then it's not considered flanked" Also I'm surprised that even though the distance is longer to charge in that there is no DT for close order units being charged in their flank to see if they can keep formation whilst wheeling. As I would imagine that seeing 400 plus cavalry trying to get into your side might be a little alarming 😀😀

DCRBrown
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Re: Flank or not Flank

Post by DCRBrown » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:45 am

B,

The main point to bear in mind in this situation is that if a charge starts from 15cms or less - then the defender cannot react at all. (see 5b. p44.)

DB

bellebsc
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Re: Flank or not Flank

Post by bellebsc » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:26 pm

Absolutely...thanks again.

bellebsc
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Re: Flank or not Flank

Post by bellebsc » Sun May 26, 2019 2:36 pm

Same question as such

If charged outwith 15cm can an unformed unit being charged on their flank wheel upto half their movement.

Only thing I could see for unformed movement is in the actual movement phase, so I'm thinking that the charge phase is different for unformed units who can still try to wheel.

Thanks
R

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Polish Lancer
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Re: Flank or not Flank

Post by Polish Lancer » Sun May 26, 2019 11:04 pm

I would say they don't move as they have lost order and lack cohesion as a unit to actually maneuver to wheel and face the enemy.

Archdukek
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Re: Flank or not Flank

Post by Archdukek » Mon May 27, 2019 9:02 am

Polish Lancer wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 11:04 pm
I would say they don't move as they have lost order and lack cohesion as a unit to actually maneuver to wheel and face the enemy.
I can't find anything in the rulebook which would prevent an Unformed unit wheeling to face an enemy charge, but Polish Lancer's conclusion makes sense to me and is consistent with the limited options which Unformed units have during the movement phase.

John

bellebsc
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Re: Flank or not Flank

Post by bellebsc » Mon May 27, 2019 9:32 am

I'd day the same but in the charge phase you have options which is fire, wheel or square and it does not mention that a unit needs to be formed to qualify to wheel. Exactly the same as infantry unformed can still try to get into square

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Polish Lancer
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Re: Flank or not Flank

Post by Polish Lancer » Mon May 27, 2019 10:42 pm

wheeling is a form of movement (Chapter 5 P 57), whether its there in black and white may not matter as perhaps its implied. On P56 in the Unit Movement table it states - "UNFORMED UNITS = May only reform on the spot or Retire. No other action is permitted."

Unformed units may not declare a Charge, therefore in the Charges phase that allows a Cavalry unit to counter charge it technically cannot do this because it is unformed. But of course there is nothing in concrete black and white to support my view. Another view maybe that in the Charges Phase an unformed unit charged frontally if the result is favourable some element with the unformed unit took control to launch a counter. But if its a flank attack my view remains that it sits there and takes it as a -4 to it Charges roll.

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