Churchills

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Kustenjaeger
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Churchills

Post by Kustenjaeger »

Greetings

Having a box of PSC Churchills and another on order I decided to work out what they should be for a 9 RTR group. Ignoring the Mk VII which the PSC kit cannot build and which are only with 9 RTR in small numbers after 13 July 1944, we seem to have the options of Mk III, Mk III* (75mm), Mk IV, Mk IV (75mm), Mk VI (75mm) and Mk V (95mm). There are lots of photos showing 9 RTR Churchills without 'horns' so maybe these can be left off in some cases for more variants. It looks as if all these were in use in some combination.

Apparently, page 173 of "Mr. Churchill's Tank" shows an extract from a report issued on 07 Nov 1944 listing 4 Stuarts and 31 Churchills lost by 34th Tank Bde (9 RTR, 107 RAC and 147 RAC) between 20 Oct 44 and 30 Oct 44, operating in NW Europe. The types of the 9 RTR Churchills listed are as follows:
1 Mk VII
3 Mk VI
4 Mk IV 75mm
1 Mk IV 6-pr
1 Mk III 75mm
0 Mk III 6-pr (though other regiments in the brigade lost some)

I've yet to get my head around the turret bustle configurations.

Regards

Edward

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Vis Bellica
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Re: Churchills

Post by Vis Bellica »

Hi Ed
I'm sure you've seen it already, but the FoW site has the names of all the 9RTR tanks by squadron in the Churchill Tanks in Normandy article at:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=404

I'm building C Squadron, 4th Coldstream Guards, 6 Guards Tank Brigade. No idea which mark of Churchill I should be using, but I know it's not the MkIII, which is the only one to use the bustle WITHOUT the little waterbottle thingies on the side!

R

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Vis Bellica
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Re: Churchills

Post by Vis Bellica »

Actually scrub the fact that I don't know which mark to use, all the 6th Guards Tank Brigade Churchills were converted to 75mm, which is presumably why I built them like that!

NTM
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Re: Churchills

Post by NTM »

6th Guards had indeed converted all their Churchills to 75mm by June '44 as per the returns (this was for the 2nd time as they exchanged a lot of vehicles with 31st & 34th when relegated to Army Group troops)But following feedback from the other 2 Tank Brigades they converted a lot back prior to deployment to Normandy in July (though in game terms largely irrelevant as SV for 6pdr & 75mm are the same). You do want all cast (IV/V/VI) turrets though regardless of armament. Info mainly comes from Daglish 'Operation Bluecoat Over the Battlefield' fairly sure it also includes the intended mix for 31st and/or 34th but I am away at the moment so cannot check. History of 34th states they had 22 6pdr per regiment when sent to Normandy.

NTM
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Re: Churchills

Post by NTM »

Back now and have checked. It's actually in the Epsom volume not Bluecoat.
Info came from 31st Tank brigade war Diary originally

FINAL ANTICIPATED HOLDINGS OF TANKS
7 R Tks & 9 R Tks
30 Churchills Mk III }14 to be converted
6 Churchills Mk IV }to 75mm tks
6 Churchills Mk V
16 Churchills Mk VI or VII

141 RAC

45 Churchills Mk VII
6 Churchills Mk V
7 Churchills Mk IV (to be converted to 75mm tanks)

Looking at the June tank returns they seem to have got pretty close to this

http://niehorster.orbat.com/017_britain ... _21AG.html

I would suggest having a troop with 1 each of Mk III, Mk III* and Mk IV (75mm) or Mk VI for 9RTR based on these figures. The next thing to work out is which tank to put the troop Commander in. Looking at this photo we can see a cast turret ...

Image

... and with Rob's link we can tell that this was the Troop Commanders tank but the other photos don't show the name although the 5 Troop one ends IA so not the Commanders one and it's a Mk III.

http://www.royaltankregiment.com/9_RTR/ ... raphs.html

Probably a stretch to say the Troop CO was always in a IV/VI but I'd hazard a guess on it being a 75mm armed one rather than 6pdr.

Just remembered this list of tank names;

http://mmpbooks.biz/mmp/tables/Vehicle_Names_V3.pdf

Identifies a few Churchills by specific Mk and atleast one IV (Impetuous) not the Troop CO's

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Vis Bellica
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Re: Churchills

Post by Vis Bellica »

That list of tank names is extraordinary! Now all I have to do is work out how to paint them small enough to fit on the side of the exhaust port: about 3mm letters I think!

Oh, and another question whilst we're talking Churchills: what is the tube to be stuck on the left side of the turret? Is it a smoke firer? And should it be vertical or canted forward at an angle? I've seen models, drawings and photos of it both on the tank, off the tank, vertical and canted!

http://www.royaltankregiment.com/9_RTR/ ... orough.jpg

shows it vertical (it's sticking up between the heads of the two guys in the back row on the right.

But...

http://www.worldoptions.com.au/fourpipe ... chill1.JPG

has it (a bit mangled) at an angle.

Thanks in advance

R

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Vis Bellica
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Re: Churchills

Post by Vis Bellica »

And I think that it is the thing on the right hand side of the turret in this photo:

http://www.royaltankregiment.com/9_RTR/ ... 20crew.jpg

where is looks like a rolled canvas on something!

Help!

NTM
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Re: Churchills

Post by NTM »

Vis Bellica wrote:That list of tank names is extraordinary! Now all I have to do is work out how to paint them small enough to fit on the side of the exhaust port: about 3mm letters I think!
Sod that just buy the sheet of decals from Dom

Image

http://domsdecals.com/shop/article_15mm ... m-GB-29%26

NTM
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Re: Churchills

Post by NTM »

Vis Bellica wrote:And I think that it is the thing on the right hand side of the turret in this photo:

http://www.royaltankregiment.com/9_RTR/ ... 20crew.jpg

where is looks like a rolled canvas on something!

Help!
http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.shillito/a22new/

Flag bag, with 3 signalling flags (1 set)

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Vis Bellica
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Re: Churchills

Post by Vis Bellica »

Another amazing resource!

They are indeed flag bags and, from the diagram, they should be vertical.

Muchos gracias!

R

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