Casualty removal

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powermonger
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Casualty removal

Post by powermonger » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:16 pm

Hi, just playtesting with Indochine I would like to ask a question.
A french team receives fire from some Vietminh LMG’s. End result is 2 killed.
The french team is composed of 2 men w/SMG and 2 men w/rifles.
Who chooses which 2 figures gets killed? The firer? The french? Random?

Thanks in advance!

Diego

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Casualty removal

Post by john de terre neuve » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:22 pm

The rules usually deal with squads rather than teams. In that case, the casualties are split between the teams, for an odd casualty it depends on whether the defenders are in cover or not. If in cover the defender picks, if in the open the the attacker picks.

Your case is a little different, but I believe the spirit of the rules would be that a SMG and a Rifle is taken off the table. If there are 3 kills, I would apply the same rules in respect to cover.

John

powermonger
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Re: Casualty removal

Post by powermonger » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:32 pm

Thanks a lot John! That sounds very reasonable. I will do as you suggest.


Diego

Archdukek
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Re: Casualty removal

Post by Archdukek » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Actually that isn't correct John, in Chain of Command you never split "casualties" between teams. What you split are "hits" from enemy fire amongst any teams affected as evenly as possible with the opponent allocating any odd hits when the target is in the open and the owner allocating it when in cover. When the hits have been allocated each team rolls separately for the effect with any casualties removed from that team. (section 9.1, p37)

It is the targetted player who rolls for effect in CoC (p38) and it is that player who picks which specific figures are removed as casualties so in Diego's example it is the French player who decides who gets killed.

In the circumstances I would be inclined to agree that removing one of each would be reasonable but the rules don't require that.

John

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john de terre neuve
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Re: Casualty removal

Post by john de terre neuve » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:10 pm

Sorry John, you are completely correct. I actually was more intent on answering Diego's question about splitting. Of course you split hits rather than casualities.

My abject apologies for misleading Diego!

John

ps: I think I was overexcited to finally not have to sign in to the forum everytime I opened the website. I just stopped using Safari and used Firefox instead..

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Seret
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Re: Casualty removal

Post by Seret » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:01 pm

Yep, they're your troops, you can choose who bites the bullet. This comes in to play the most for LMG teams, you'd invariably choose to kill off any ammunition-bearers first.

Where there's a bit of room for interpretation is situations such as an LMG firing around the corner of a building. Realistically only the gunner (and maybe the #2) would be exposed to incoming fire, so if you took a casualty you might s decide it's more reasonable to remove gun crew figures first and riflemen after. But that's not an actual rule.

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7dot62mm
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Re: Casualty removal

Post by 7dot62mm » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:54 pm

Seret wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:01 pm
you'd invariably choose to kill off any ammunition-bearers first.
Yes, being an ammo bearer in CoC is like being a security guard on the starship Enterprise, it's a death sentence!

:lol:

donglewwe
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Re: Casualty removal

Post by donglewwe » Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:57 pm

Spin: Having the target/defending player pick may reflect the importance of the weapon rather than the man? If the LMG is critical, then a rifleman would drop his weapon and man the LMG? Same with SMG or rifle? I suppose a pause could be imposed (an acitvation to re-man?) but I don't interpret the time scale of phases to include that sort of intimate distinction - double phases handle that well enough, imo.

IMHO, it is assumed (in a 'player=platoon cmdr' game) that the men at the sharp end are doing the best they can (given training. experience, etc...) to handle the nuts and bolts of who's shooting with what. It is not up to the player to choose. I could see a random roll determining which figure is downed, but -given the fluid timescale- think it an unnecessary time-waster.

powermonger
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Re: Casualty removal

Post by powermonger » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:57 pm

Thanks for all your answers!

Diego

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remgain
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Re: Casualty removal

Post by remgain » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:22 am

Donglewwe,

the rules are quite clear. In every team you choose to remove whichever miniature you decide. So this implicitly assumes that, if in reality the LMG gunner was hit, another comrade took his place. The only limit is the number of men in the lmg team... when you finish them, no man from other teams can came and man the LMG and the team is destroyed. This is the reason because the junior leader, nobody else, can move men front the rifle team to the - endangered - LMG team.
Hope this helps!

Marco
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.

George Bernard Shaw

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