Early War Handbook Queries

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Archdukek
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by Archdukek » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:24 pm

Acorn2445 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:08 pm
A question on the British Support List regarding the Vickers.

The Vickers Support team appears on List 4 but has no leader. As I understand it, the Vickers would have come from the Divisional Machine Gun Battalion and so cannot be influenced any of the platoon leaders being from outside the battalion. Should they not have a junior leader with them or at least should there not be the option of adding one. There is the option of adding a Senior Leader with the '39 platoon but no way to add a junior. It seems to me that troops like that, re subordinated from Division, would have come with some sort of command element, if only to make sure they were looked after properly.
As a general rule which applies across all Army lists, MMGs like the Vickers do not come with a Junior Leader. However, they can be activated as a Team on a Command Dice of '1' or by the Platoon's Senior Leader who can also remove Shock.

Senior Leaders from the platoon can usually command any attached infantry support weapons. It's vehicles from other formations like tanks that they cannot command.

John

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Seret
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by Seret » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:54 pm

Acorn2445 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:08 pm
the Vickers would have come from the Divisional Machine Gun Battalion and so cannot be influenced any of the platoon leaders being from outside the battalion.
According to the org chart, yes they're a divisional asset. However, in practice the MG battalion never operated as a unit, and was pretty much permanently divided up and attached to individual infantry units. They were treated as an organic support down to battalion and company level. I wouldn't split hairs over whether an SL can command them or not, they're an infantry asset and an infantry leader should be able to activate them.

Acorn2445
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by Acorn2445 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:51 am

That makes sense, I would have thought they would be integrated into the chain of command for the operation but it is always interesting to hear from others. There is a lot of detailed knowledge on this forum.

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Arlequín
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by Arlequín » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:07 am

In 1940 the MG battalions were Corps troops and not every Division had one attached (e.g. 50th Northumbrian didn't). Those that did had enough to allocate one company per brigade, with one in reserve; one four gun platoon per battalion, or one gun per company in other words. They typically never deployed as single guns, a two-gun section under a sergeant was the lowest element. Vehicles, rangefinders and other kit was also issued on a section basis, not to individual gun teams.

Fast forward to the retreat and the Dunkirk Perimeter though and indeed many 'sections' would only have one gun still operational.

Incidentally the MG Battalion would be where many of the additional Brens and Boys would come from too, 13 and 18 respectively per MG battalion, on paper at least.

I do find it odd that 'off-table' MGs have become a German speciality, clearly all those dial-sights and range-tables and all the other kit carried, was just useless junk.

:roll:

andysyk
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by andysyk » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:26 am

The Vickers was probably the finest MMG ever developed, likewise the tactics devised for it. Nearly all off which in game would be off table. Its use as a positional defence weapon was not its main intended role which is the one most used in wargames.
When the GPMG was adopted many units were sorry to see the Vickers go as it was considered far superior in the sustained fire/indirect etc role.

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Iztvan
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by Iztvan » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:06 am

Gebirgsjägers - no special morale track?

Am I missing something or is the special morale track for gebirgsjägers missing?

Already planning for weserübung...
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redmist1122
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by redmist1122 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:48 pm

Already asked and answered...
Greg P.
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Seret
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by Seret » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:39 pm

andysyk wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:26 am
Nearly all off which in game would be off table. Its use as a positional defence weapon was not its main intended role which is the one most used in wargames.
Indeed, I was pleased to see some rules for off-table MG fire in the supplement, that's something that should have been in the basic CoC rules as it's the way such guns are used. Single tripod guns deployed right in the first line of infantry positions like we see in CoC games is not the norm.

Not sure why it's limited to the Germans though. This was absolutely something other nations did, too.
When the GPMG was adopted many units were sorry to see the Vickers go as it was considered far superior in the sustained fire/indirect etc role.
People always grumble when their weapons are changed. The air-cooled guns have turned out to put out the same level of firepower, while being more mobile and (if used correctly) more reliable. The Vickers was retired because it was a dinosaur.
Last edited by Seret on Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

powermonger
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by powermonger » Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:15 am

If you want indirect Vickers (or other)) MG fire you can use the rules for it in the CoC WWI article in one of the TFL specials

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Arlequín
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Re: Early War Handbook Queries

Post by Arlequín » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:05 pm

... or you could just apply the rules and support list placement in the 1940 Book to everybody; although I might make it List 4 for the British, given their lack of guns. Everybody else managed a machine gun company per infantry battalion, rather than per brigade at best with the BEF.

Esoteric shooting for area denial and other applications is adequately covered by the abstraction of the 'Pre-Game Barrage'.

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