Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Moderators: Laffe, Vis Bellica

User avatar
JOHN BOND 001
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:58 am

Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by JOHN BOND 001 »

Need help with the following questions :?:
cheers john


1.If a sniper is incorporated in one sections (e.g. late war Australian troops);

a)Does he deploy with the rest of the squad on a 2 or 3? And if so does he deploy within 4” or 12”?
b)Can he deploy on a 1? And if so does he deploy within 4” or 12”?
c)Once deployed, do the normal rules in regards to the sniper apply? Or since he is part of the section can he be activated by the Junior Leader?


2.
(a)
Can a Sniper choose to target a LMG team within a section, even though it is within 4” of the rifle team and both teams are in the same cover?
(b)Can a Sniper choose to target a LMG team within a section, even though it is within 4” of the rifle team and both teams are in the OPEN?

3.
(a)A senior Leader is outside, at the back of a building and is within 9”Command distance to activate troops on the ground floor, 1st floor and the attic.
(b)Would you apply any restrictions on activating troops on each level of the building as the Senior Leader is outside the building?
(c)If the Senior Leader was on the ground floor would you apply any restrictions or allow him to activate all members of the section thru out the building?



4.Scenario One; the patrol
Should Flamethrowers be available for use in Scenario One, as this is a patrol?

5. Hedges questions (not talking about Bocage hedges)

(a)What are peoples understanding of hedges that blocks line of sight.
(b)Do you need to be hard up against this hedge to be seen or fire?
(c)Or do you need to be within 2” of this hedge to be seen or fire?

In some of the scenarios such as “Scottish Corridor it states:
“”however this is not bocage country, so hedges are not impenetrable. However, this is a very rural area and hedges do block line of sight. Troops within 2” of a hedge may be seen through it, but further away they are invisible and may not be targeted. Crossing is classed as a Medium obstacle
Hedges are classed as “Rural” and a team must be within 2” of the hedge to fire or be seen by the enemy.
In the rule book diagram page 33
Team A and B have both troopers against the hedge and some that are away from base contact with the hedge but all can be seen by the Germans.
Team C is not visible to the Germans, how far back from the hedge does a team need to be not to be visible.

In “29lets go “.....teams need to be hard up against these hedges to fire and be seen.

Archdukek
Posts: 5141
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by Archdukek »

OK here is my take on your questions:

1. If I recall correctly the previous discussions, where a list shows a 'sniper' as part of a section such as British Paras you have a choice. You can deploy him as an additional Sniper following all the normal rules for a sniper as usual, or you can deploy him as an ordinary rifleman within the section, not both. He stays in whatever role you choose for the duration of the game.
Snipers can never be activated by any leader (see 9.5).

2. A sniper may target any Unit within direct line of sight (9.5). The definition of a Unit on page 10 includes any weapon team, so yes they can target an LMG Team. Covers irrelevant, if he has LOS he can shoot.

3. You need to read the FAQ section on Leaders controlling troops in buildings which will apply to SLs as well as JLs and a bit of common sense about the situation on your tabletop. Basically if they troops are within his 9" command range then he can activate them, but he will need to us a CI to activate troops on different floors.

4. This is one occasion were you need to play the period, not the rules. Personally I wouldn't allow the use of Flamethrowers in a Patrol scenario since neither side can use entrenchments or similar defences which is the primary reason for allocating a flamethrower to a platoon in reality. A flamethrower isn't the kind of weapon I would have expected to find on a patrol. However, the rules do not restrict that option though you would need to roll a '5' or '6' for support to be able to afford it.

5. When defining the effect of hedges you need to apply some pragmatism and common sense, an understanding of the terrain being represented and what passes for hedges in your collection and agree with your opponent how the rules will apply in your game.
a) According to section 8.1 a high, dense hedge blocks line of sight a low hedge doesn't.
The distinction between garden hedges and farm hedges as obstacles in 7.2 can be a useful guide here, but sometimes farm hedges can be straggly affairs and garden hedges tall and dense, so it does depend on what you want your terrain to represent.
b) how close you need to be to a hedge to see and fire or be seen again depends on the type of hedge. Generally to avoid argument I say that troops should be up against a high hedge if they want to use it to see or fire through it but will allow troops within say 1" of the hedge to count and to be seen.
If you want to claim the hedge to blocks line of sight then you should declare that and place your men away from the hedge with a clear gap of 1-2", in which case you can't be seen but neither can you see or fire.
The rules in Scottish Corridor and 29 Let's Go reflect Rich's assessment of the type and nature of the hedgerows to be found in those particular parts of Northern France. You can make a similar decision with your opponent when setting up your terrain and scenario.

John

ocollens
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:38 am

Re: Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by ocollens »

Hi JB001,

For what its worth I don't call those guys within Airborne and ranger platoons etc. snipers. Nor do I think of them as ordinary riflemen. I call them Marksmen.

They have not had proper sniper training and they don't have a spotter.
They are good shots with a scoped rifle.

So, if you are willing to accept a bit more complexity, here's what I do.
Deploy them as a specialist within a section (think rifle grenadier) or deploy them as scouts (especially US and USSR). Normally activate as if part of a section but leader can activate as specific team if separate.

Abilities
1. May not target enemy figures like a sniper.
2. Treat all table as close range.
3, Ignore 1 level of cover.
Vulnerabilities
1. If part of section dice for like any other specialist.
2. If separate from section treat like a forward observer.

Cost 2 or maybe 3. Your choice.
Not available as a support, they are part of a platoon.

As I say, more complexity, so it is up to you.

Final aside, US armoured rifle platoons had one 'on the book' but it seems not always up to the job. I use the the D6 123 no, 456 yes old school test.

User avatar
Emilio
Posts: 608
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:43 pm
Location: Cee, Galicia, Northwest Spain
Contact:

Re: Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by Emilio »

JOHN BOND 001 wrote:Need help with the following questions :?:
cheers john


1.If a sniper is incorporated in one sections (e.g. late war Australian troops);

a)Does he deploy with the rest of the squad on a 2 or 3? And if so does he deploy within 4” or 12”?
b)Can he deploy on a 1? And if so does he deploy within 4” or 12”?
c)Once deployed, do the normal rules in regards to the sniper apply? Or since he is part of the section can he be activated by the Junior Leader?




There is a clarification by Richard on the use of snipers asigned to sections here:

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1713&p=12800&hilit ... per#p12800

User avatar
JOHN BOND 001
Posts: 695
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:58 am

Re: Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by JOHN BOND 001 »

Thanks Archdukek, ocullens and Emilio for your help
cheers John

User avatar
Seret
Posts: 4118
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:45 pm
Location: Kent UK
Contact:

Re: Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by Seret »

Archdukek wrote: 2. A sniper may target any Unit within direct line of sight (9.5). The definition of a Unit on page 10 includes any weapon team, so yes they can target an LMG Team. Covers irrelevant, if he has LOS he can shoot.
I think John was asking if a sniper can single out a team from within a section, which he can't. However, since it's a single hit the sniper would have the option to put it on the gun team if they were in the open. In cover it'll almost certainly be going on the poor rifles!

Likewise the sniper won't be able to single out anything like an AT gun crew if there are infantry within 4" and the same cover.

Tellus
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:20 am

Re: Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by Tellus »

Seret wrote:
I think John was asking if a sniper can single out a team from within a section, which he can't. However, since it's a single hit the sniper would have the option to put it on the gun team if they were in the open. In cover it'll almost certainly be going on the poor rifles!

Likewise the sniper won't be able to single out anything like an AT gun crew if there are infantry within 4" and the same cover.


Well, I can't see anything in the rules that supports your statement.
You are always shooting at teams not at sections, you are just dividing hits between teams that are within 4", visible and in the same cover. As a sniper can only achieve one hit, so there's nothing to divide.

User avatar
Seret
Posts: 4118
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:45 pm
Location: Kent UK
Contact:

Re: Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by Seret »

Tellus wrote: Well, I can't see anything in the rules that supports your statement.
You are always shooting at teams not at sections, you are just dividing hits between teams that are within 4", visible and in the same cover. As a sniper can only achieve one hit, so there's nothing to divide.
As there's only one hit, it can only go on one team. If the target is in cover it's the targeted player who decides where any "odd" hits go. They could of course choose to take the hit on the gun team, but it's pretty unlikely.

If the target is in the open, then yes the sniper's hit can go on whichever team the sniper's player wants.

Archdukek
Posts: 5141
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by Archdukek »

Seret,
What you say is true for normal firing, but section 9.5 says that a sniper can specifically target any unit he chooses within Los, so I would say that he can select his choice of target team. That is after all consistent with his battlefield role.
In any case a sniper's target is always treated as being in the open and cover is ignored so on your logic it should be the firer who selects where the odd hit goes.

John

Tellus
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:20 am

Re: Rural hedges,Snipers,Senior Leaders,Flamethrowers

Post by Tellus »

Good point John.

But I disagree about the odd hits.
The rules say you divide hits equally between any teams fired at and odd (surplus, in my opinion) hits will be allocated under the specified circumstances. So it would be the third, fifth and so on hit that would count for that.

Otherwise it could happen that it would be possible to protect a team from being hit by a weapon, like a 2" mortar, that only has 2 FP, and that seems a bit...erm... odd to me. ;)

Post Reply