Representing Veteran Troops

Moderators: Vis Bellica, Laffe

Len Tracey
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:33 am

Representing Veteran Troops

Post by Len Tracey » Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:02 am

G'day all,
Below is a thought I've had for representing veteran, as opposed to elite, troops on the table. Its a way of varying a force rated as regular to reflect battle experience. Its not a campaign system but could be used in one. Happy to hear people's opinion on this.

CoC categorises troops as either green, regular or elite. Green troops suffer penalties, regular troops are the game’s standard and elite troops get a number of bonuses. Specifically, elite troops gains the following rule benefits:
•+2 to their Force Morale D6 roll
•They can deploy up to 9” from a Jump-off point compared to regular’s 6”
•They are 16% harder to hit at all ranges compared to regulars
•They gain bonus dice in close combat against lesser rated troops
However, regular units will produce veteran troops as they experience battle without them becoming elite units. These can be translated into the following veteran abilities for regular troops, reflecting the varying skills experienced veterans pick up:
Trench Fighters [/b](Squad): Squad counts as an elite unit in CC
Hardened Survivors (Squad): Squad counts as elite troops when being fired on
Tactically Adept (Squad): Squad counts as an elite unit when deploying from JOP
Dogged Warriors (Force): Force counts as elite when determining Force Morale

Most of the above can be applied to individual Squad/Sections as required, although the ability granting a bonus to Force Morale needs to be applied to a whole force. I have assigned no ratings or points for these abilities, as I see them as scenario design tools, not army list building options. Making these abilities “buyable” is too open to abuse.

Applying a limited selection of these benefits to regular troops can be a useful tool to simulate experienced troops who don’t qualify as part of an elite unit. For example: A regular Soviet Infantry squad that is experienced at close combat could be given the elite unit bonus dice in CC against equal or lesser rated troops. Likewise, a veteran German grenadier squad that has survived a year on the Russian front might be given the elite rating when fired on – making them harder to hit.

Munin
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: Representing Veteran Troops

Post by Munin » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:33 pm

I really like this. It bridges the (fairly vast) gap between regular and elite nicely, and would be great for campaign play.

You could also apply the same idea on the low end - as a way to represent green troops becoming regulars.

Archdukek
Posts: 3676
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Linlithgow, West Lothian, UK

Re: Representing Veteran Troops

Post by Archdukek » Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:33 pm

Nice idea, but might be best to apply the same benefit to all the squads in a platoon for ease of play.
John

Magpie
Posts: 558
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 12:29 pm
Location: Cairns, Australia

Re: Representing Veteran Troops

Post by Magpie » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:53 pm

I've always thought the "Elite" was really just another way of saying veteran.
I think the term Elite is maybe a little bit misused. Elite to me is more about motivation, level of training and equipment, not necessarily it's experience.

For example the Britsh Guards Armoured was an Elite unit but landed in Normandy totally Green.

I do like the idea though of a "pick a box" of Veterancy traits. That'd give a lot of depth to being able to create differing flavours of units. Gurkhas getting Trench Fighter, 12SS getting Dogged, US Rangers getting Tac Adept all on top of otherwise being Regular
Last edited by Magpie on Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
CoC Calculator (Excel spreadsheet to calc platoon and list levels)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uvpypn0mi75y7 ... .xlsx?dl=0

Post additions/corrections to the CoC Calcualtor
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4423

Len Tracey
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:33 am

Re: Representing Veteran Troops

Post by Len Tracey » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:30 am

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that applying the same benefit to the entire platoon makes things easier. When playing with this we did create veteran squads as support choices, mainly because we had some very distinct miniatures to represent them. I like the idea of developing similar traits for Green platoons. I guess you could even make negative traits to reflect worn out or exhausted troops. Something I'll have to look at.
Cheers all,

Len Tracey
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:33 am

Re: Representing Veteran Troops

Post by Len Tracey » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:36 am

While I'm here, I'd also like to say that I very much like Richard H's idea for balancing Green/Regular/Elite forces with the Command Dice. I use it regularly and it has played well. Thanks again Richard H.
I've reprinted a summary below in case people have missed it.

As an alternative to the current 4/5/6 Command dice for Green/Regular/Elite forces, which can make Green forces very hard to play while Elites can be just too good, the following dice allocation is suggested:

Green forces get 4 Command dice and a Phase dice (represented by a different colour dice)

Regular forces get the standard 5 Command dice as usual

Elite forces get 5 Command dice and a Control dice (represented by a different colour dice)

The Phase dice is used on a 5 to add a CoC point and a 6 for phase effects, rolls of 1-4 are ignored.

The Control dice is the opposite, it is used as a normal command dice but ignore rolls of 5 or 6.

User avatar
courageous
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:10 pm

Re: Representing Veteran Troops

Post by courageous » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:02 pm

This idea is very interesting as I have been thinking about this for some time.

An example would be British/ Commonwealth forces in Africa. We have the 8th Army moving across North Africa to reach Tunisia, battle hardened and experienced. Compare these troops with those of the 1st Army,also arriving in Tunisia, a different kettle of fish. Us Troops moving from Tunisia, Sicily, Italy and then onto D-Day... So as you say, not elite units but experienced none the less. I'm sure their must have been instances where seasoned troops even out-performed so-called elite troops?

Platoon Force Ratings change due to organisation changes, weapons change, etc. Maybe an adjustment to this could be made and maybe take on an 'elite' status at some stage? How this can be done is outside my abilities but clever designers and wargamers should be able to.

Just my thoughts...

User avatar
Seret
Posts: 3417
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:45 pm
Location: Kent UK
Contact:

Re: Representing Veteran Troops

Post by Seret » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:30 pm

For Eighth Army in Italy I've been using the suggestion of a step between regular and elite. When firing at them, you reroll any sixes and discard the hit if it's a 1-3, and in close combat they get an extra one dice instead of two. I've not touched the command dice, as I just wanted to model the better fieldcraft of the troops.

User avatar
courageous
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:10 pm

Re: Representing Veteran Troops

Post by courageous » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:00 pm

Still getting used to CoC but it would be interesting to see how your idea works.

Can their be more steps between regular and elite and between green and regular for that matter. Sooner or later your green troops would become regular and regular to elite troops wouldn't they? It's all about getting the balance right I suppose.

Munin
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: Representing Veteran Troops

Post by Munin » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:28 pm

I think a lot depends on the time-scale of your campaign. If it's one of these campaigns that represents a single action taking place over the course of a few hours, I don't see giving the troops experience. People learn quickly under fire to be sure, but over the course of several hours seems unrealistic.

But if your campaign reflects a series of battles taking place over several weeks, I think it's reasonable that the soldiers that come out of the end of it have better field-craft than those who went it.

Post Reply