What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

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Jason le peintre
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What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by Jason le peintre » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:27 pm

Hi everyone (sorry for my english...)

Twelfth party tonight and we had a very strange situation...

We had already see that the lost Leader was very hard to support but i want to be sure of this... I explain:

One JL is wounded with 4,5,6 so moral test
always the same is wounded with a 2 or 3, moral test.
And finaly again the same NCO wounded! and finaly dead... 6 force moral point lost juste for ONE soldier... We play very well the rules???

We find this very strange, in FAQ i can read "yes" for multiple test but i want to be sure...

and another question, Its very weird but a NCO has the same chance to be hit by fire within squad with 2 soldiers or 12... because we test always with one hit only. Do you have another solution to avoid this case?

thank you again! We will beginning a campaign very soon because we love this game :)

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Teufelhunden
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Re: What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by Teufelhunden » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:20 am

Had the same thing happen, but even worse as it was a support unit JL. I believe you played it correctly (as mentioned, we did the same thing). Depending on your Bad Things Happen (BTH) roll, yes you could lose 6 Force Morale, or even more if he continuously rolls a 2 or 3 when hit. I think it would be hard to lose 6 points with three wounds, though, as you have to roll a 6 on the BTH roll to lose 2 points each time.

Kustenjaeger
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Re: What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by Kustenjaeger » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:33 am

Greetings

A leader within 4" of a team is hit on a D6 roll equal to or less than the number of kills on the team. So one kill would mean a roll of 1 on a D6 hits the JL instead. You are exchanging a man dead for a wounded or killed leader.

If a JL is hit for a 4.5,6 he removes a level (II to I) and there is a force morale test - 0-2 potential losses
A subsequent hit and 2-3 he is inactive and there is a force morale test - 0-2 potential losses
A third hit and a kill or 4-6 removes a level (I to 0) and kills him 1-2 potential losses (a 2-3 would have inactivated him and forced a morale test with 0-2 potential losses).

It's certainly possible to lose a lot of force morale this way but really unlucky!

Edward

Rich H
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Re: What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by Rich H » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:59 am

He was a very popular officer and obviously keeping your whole platoon together!

Munin
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Re: What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by Munin » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:57 pm

Seeing a man die quickly is one of the "ordinary" horrors of war.

Seeing a man get hit, struggle to rise, get hit again, attempt to crawl to safety, get hit again, probably screaming in agony the whole time... that will mess you up.

Alternately, you can simply take your test to see if a leader gets hit (and any resulting losses to Force Morale) at the end of the phase. Just mark down how many losses the unit has suffered in total, remembering that if the leader takes a hit, you get a deader back. If the leader is attached to more than one team (i.e. an entire section) and multiple teams have suffered losses, just randomize which one gets a man back. That way you'll only suffer this effect once per phase.

Morgan
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Re: What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by Morgan » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:25 pm

I think that you are supposed to roll immediately, rather than add up the results and roll once at the end of the turn. The rulebook says (section 15.1 "Force Morale Tracking"): 'Each time your force suffers a significant setback, such as a Unit being wiped out or Breaking under pressure, roll a D6 on Table Sixteen, Bad Things Happen.'

I have taken that to mean "roll immediately".

Assuming three different units are firing at one target, the attacker has the option of firing one-at-a-time or all at the same time. If she has chosen to fire one-at-a-time and each of those firing units scores a hit on a leader, I think that the Force Morale roll should be made each time that happens.

But I may be wrong (and, of course, your house rules can always be whatever you like).
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Rich H
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Re: What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by Rich H » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:53 pm

The leader hit roll is something that I personally don't like, in a huge target like a pair of soviet squads he's as likely to get hit as if he's in a Finnish team of two.

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SteveBurt
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Re: What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by SteveBurt » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:56 pm

There's a very illuminating piece in the designer's notes of Squad Leader where John Hill describes the effect on a German platoon in Russia of seeing their Leader killed. This was a man who had led them through Poland & France. The platoon basically ceases to function when he dies.
So yes, losing a popular leader could indeed cause force morale to fail.

siggian
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Re: What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by siggian » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:54 pm

I roll for leader hits once per phase after all firing has been done. I do this to encourage more grouping of attacks to keep the game going rather than have people wait to see the results of the attack before doing the next attack on the same target.

Jason le peintre
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Re: What!? A defeat because of one LJ???

Post by Jason le peintre » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:52 am

Thank you all!

It's clear for this, we play good rules.
But i'm OK with rich.

Team of 3 crew -> One kill -> One on D6, JL wounded.
Squad of twelve men -> One kill -> One on D6, JL wonded...

Very badluck guy this JL!

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